Why hasn't his intake mainfold gasket failed?

[Huney1]

Getting my serpentine belt replaced my Mr, GoodWrench, $40. labor and I furnished the belt. Coincidentially, a guy had his 2001 Venture Van in for service oil change and we got to talking about our vans and he said he has 214,000 miles on his and never a major repair. like head or intake manifold gaskets replaced. Says he's had the oil & filter changed every 500 miles and tranny and cooling system flushed every 100K miles and they drive it every day. Ours is a 2000 with 62K miles and no major problems with it thus far, but I wonder why he hasn't had head or intake manifold gasket leaks common to the 3.4 engine? Middle aged guy around 50 in the military said they had it al over the USA and have three kids and they drive it to. 214,000 miles and no major repairs? Give that man a cee-gar!

[cdru]

Not all fail. Many do, but many don't. Remember that a sampling of posts here is not indicitive of the overall health of all U-bodies.

And I hope you meant that he was going 5000 miles, not 500 miles on an oil change. If he was only going 500 per change, he was literally throwing away money with each change.

[Glen_T]

What area of the country was the van used primarily (the one with high miles and no intake manifold gasket failure)? If it was mostly in a warmer climate, then that would support thermal cycling as the primary driver for this failure mode. The temperature difference (delta T) wouldn't be a lot different (e.g. 220F to 50F versus 220F to -0F). But 50F out of a 220 is not insignificant, and since these vans seem very popular in the northern states and Canada, I think it would be interesting to see failure rates as a function of location.....Glen

[Huney1]

Glen, he didn't say what area of the country they lived in most of the time, but he is military stationed in Virginia before he transferred to SC, near Savannah, GA. When I was in we transferred every two and a half or three years, so this is probably his second transfer since he got the Venture. Well, if living in a hot climate is good I'm good to go because it often gets 100F or better here during the summer, and winter we don't get many nights at or below freezing. I flushed the system ten times and filled with natural, pure well water and 50% Prestone anti-freeze.

You sound scientific so this should ineterest you. Before I flushed it I took a PH stick I use to test the pool PH and it was off the scale Ph way, way high.
From what I know, normal PH is 7.6, but the coolant PH test swab was so blood red it must have been 20. Found this on the web: "Rainfall, as pure water, should have a pH value very close to 7.0, which indicates a solution that is neither acidic nor basic."

This evening I'll test Venture Ph with the Prestone and the wifes 05 Ford car and see if the PH is that high now. Yeah, I think it would be a GOOD THING to take a poll asking folks who have had the intake gasket fail, what state they live in.
And why not ask the folks who have pools to dip a Ph swab in the collant and give us the results? Suggest posting on the front page as a new thread so it gets the most exposure.

CDRU - Yeah, I meant 5K oil changes, not 500. I'm dyslexic and I see alpha-numerics that aren't there and my mind thinks one thing and fingers type something else all jumbled up, words half backwards, numbers out of sequence and all kind of neat things! <Grin> Consequently, I have to proof read everything four or five times, then still make errors. So if I make typo-s please forgive, call it to my attention and I'll correct or clarify.

[Glen_T]

It's been awhile since I took chemistry, but as I recall, low numbers mean it is acidic and higher numbers mean it is more alkaline.

The thing is, I looked up a little on the internet, and as coolant degrades and loses it's corrosion inhibitors, the pH drops. Could you have read it wrong?

I'm not a big fan of extended life coolants, but I don't believe the coolant is the cause for this apparent abnormal failure rate on the 3.4L GM intake gasket....Glen

[Huney1]

Glen T: "It's been awhile since I took chemistry, but as I recall, low numbers mean it is acidic and higher numbers mean it is more alkaline."

The first time I checked mine with with DexCool the strip was blood red indicating the pH was at least above ten and maybe more. With the Prestone test strip sample taken inside the filler neck I see a barely orange swab indicating pH at 6.2 indicating the coolant is acidic.

See what effects low pH has in/on pools: "The water can corrode surfaces, metal equipment or fixtures." Seems to me we should want a 7.2 to 7.8 pH in our cooling systems so it doesn't, "corrode metal." No idea what material the intake gasket is made of, but I assume it has *some* metal in it. Let's not forget, the ladders, pump impeller shafts & most metals in a pool are stainless steel. Now then,. . . to increase the pH in my cooling system I need to add soda ash, (commonly used pool chemical), to bring the pH up to 7.2 - 7.6 which should curb the corrosive qualities of low pH water or coolant.

Being completely honest here folks, I might be blowing a bunch of smoke, but all I am doing is thinking out loud and I humbly implore you to share your thoughts. Just for kicks, I sent Prestone an e mail to their customer service dept asking the above questions so we'll see if we get a reply.

EDIT 2-17 AM: Two thumbs up to Prestone for customer support.
Re'cd a reply yesterday afternoon, and here it is:

"Hello R,

Thank you for your inquiry and your interest in our products. To answer your question, Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze Coolant has a PH of 8.7 with a 50/50 mixture. Some of the older silicate coolants have a higher PH of around 10.2 with a 50/50 mixture. We hope this has answered your question.

Thank you,

Prestone"

[wafrederick]

Fel Pro has that fixed,it is the real fix and that guy is proballly smoking something.Fel Pro updated the intake gaskets to metal instead of plastic and are available now through auto parts stores that sell Fel Pro gaskets.I have seen the updated ones for the vortec 350 and installed them in place of the plastic ones

[MIBPreacher]

I have heard that Dexcool has properties in it that eat away at plastic. WHO in their right mind designed a plastic gasket? It would make sense that they have switched to metal. Anyone ever converted to the green stuff?

[Huney1]

"Fel Pro has that fixed,it is the real fix and that guy is proballly smoking something." Nope, I don't smoke. GM started putting those engines & sorry gaskets in vehicles in what, 1996? And in mid 2003 Fel Pro *finally* designed gasket for GM that would hold up. Well, zippedy-doo-dah-day. I wonder hoiw many hundred thousand engines GM put in vehicles with sorry, no good, leaky gaskets then when the customers wanted their investment repaired GM said eat it. So GM is the one eating it losing ten billion dollars going bankrupt.
Good, as Ye Sew so shall Ye reap.

And that isn't all, I had so many various problems with mine costing me money I finally threw up my hands and traded it for a Ford and haven't had one problem with it where with only 64K miles the Venture had to have something replaced or repaired almost weekly. IMO, it was a real dog and the first and last GM product I ever owned and never again will GM get one dime of my money because from now on it's Hondas and Fords for our family.

[dinok]

Just to say few words about GM product.

Have Chevy Lumina 2001, bought used with about 10K and less than 1 year old and neverhad any problems with that great car. My wife took that car from me as soon as I put the car in parking lot.
Have now on it about 60K and have never done anything major on engine or such. Just flushed the radiator last week and whole cooling system and will change oil and filter in trany soon.
Car is great. My wife and I never had any problem with it.
Recently bought used Chevy Venture extended minivan 2002 with 86K on it.
Next day I found that on Venture AC condensor is brocken and is leaking freon.
Tried to re-charge but they went out as soon as I put it on it.
So, went to my mechanic and he exchange condensor for $500 and flushed the radiator and get rid of Dex-Col orange stuff and put green antifreez inside.
He also told me that the intake manifold need to get to my attention and if start leaking really bad, call him and he will fix it for me for about $500.
So, I was thinking to get that job done and also to flush trany and filter & oil, change spark plugs, etc... (hi quoted me about $650-$700 for whole job done). He showed me that start leaking and he told me to pay attention to it.
I like this van. It's comfortable for driving and it's roomie.

Like GM vehicle a lot.

Have had 2 Fords before this minivan and it was biggest POS I ever owned.
Had one of Taurus which I bought from 1st owner and only 50K on it and all the time something was brocken and had to visit mechanic often.
Finally got rid or that car.
Then I made mistake and bought Ford again. This time I got me Windstar, which I bought used and just week after that my engine blow out the head gaskets, so I had to replace both of those.
Soon after that, AC, and never was so good, had to re-charge the system every 1-2 months.
Was so bad that I promised to myself and of course to my wife to never got me Ford, never ever again. Not even brand new.

Have had on of Dodge Spirits, I think it was 4 cyl engine. Bought used with 105K and sold it with 178K and also never ever had any problems with that car. It was so comfortable to drive and ride inside, I was so sorry when I sold it and bought Ford Windstar after that.

Had one of Chryslers LeBaron and always had some issue with it. Don't know why and what's happend all the time, brakes, ac, electrical things, etc....

Have owned many vehicles on both continents, here in US and back in Europe and I dont know what's wrong with american cars and whole auto industry but ghe German engineering and quality is much better than our american cars what we drive here.
Even Japaneese cars, like Toyota and Honda are great ones to own.
Did acctually owned (and still do 1994 Toyota Camry, 4 cyl, with 136K on it and never had problems with that car and have this Camry for sale now).

My next vehicle probably will be some of Honda Odyseys or Tohyota's minivans, if not WV or Passat minivan. May be even Dodge GrandCaravan.

I am not complaining, just my $.02

Sincerely,

Dino K

[Huney1]

Glad you had a pleasant experience with GM because mine was a complete pain in the a**. My Taurus is running like a champ and got 23.5 MPG in town first tank and anticipating 26 - 27 on the hwy and hasn't burnt a drop of oil. Honda and Ford always did right by us so henceforth we'll stick with them.

[DRW1000]

Originally Posted by Huney1

"Fel Pro has that fixed,it is the real fix and that guy is proballly smoking something." Nope, I don't smoke. GM started putting those engines & sorry gaskets in vehicles in what, 1996? And in mid 2003 Fel Pro *finally* designed gasket for GM that would hold up. Well, zippedy-doo-dah-day. I wonder hoiw many hundred thousand engines GM put in vehicles with sorry, no good, leaky gaskets then when the customers wanted their investment repaired GM said eat it. So GM is the one eating it losing ten billion dollars going bankrupt.
Good, as Ye Sew so shall Ye reap.

And that isn't all, I had so many various problems with mine costing me money I finally threw up my hands and traded it for a Ford and haven't had one problem with it where with only 64K miles the Venture had to have something replaced or repaired almost weekly. IMO, it was a real dog and the first and last GM product I ever owned and never again will GM get one dime of my money because from now on it's Hondas and Fords for our family.

I have a Windstar as well as a Venture. I have to say that the Windstars have just as many problems as the GMs.

[DRW1000]

Originally Posted by Huney1

"Rainfall, as pure water, should have a pH value very close to 7.0, which indicates a solution that is neither acidic nor basic."

I will bet that rainfall is no-where near pure water. (Ie Acid rain). It may have been close to pure 1000 years ago but not now. Distilled water is probably about as pure as you can get.