Your input is wanted

[CassiesMan]

Ok everyone, heres whats up. After plenty of arm twisting, my girlfriend has finally convinced me to write for the school's political newspaper, which she is part of the managing team. So after thinking a bit about it, I decided to write on what I know and understand: Irish Politics and Cars. Seeing as that no one at my school could give a rat's ass about Irish Politics and it is very possible that Tony Blair is gonna be showing up before the year is over, I don't think I wanna put my name on any article that supports Sien Fein or any of their ilk.

So I decided on cars.

My article is basically going to be how the American mindset has prevented us from reaching a point of mass amounts of hybrid and uber fuel effiecient (i.e. 50mpg+) vehicles being produced. So I want your guys opinions. What do you think? We have a President who, in his last State of the Union Address, claimed we are addicted to oil, yet GM and Dodge are both bringing back iconic sports cars that will have big ol' V8s in them. Will a gas tax help? How would this affect you and your car? Would you support it, or any other actions that would get us down from 20.3mbd to 14 or less mbd? Any input is welcomed, and hey, you might just get your name in the paper!

Just a heads up to the mods, I posted this in here as opposed to the political debate section becuase:

A) I want to avoid posts like "GEORGE BUSH IS TEH SUCXUORZ AND HAXXORZ EVIL DEVIL!!!

and

B) Most people in this section drive their cars pretty hard, and I want the input of people who would most likely need to change driving habbits if they were forced to pay five bucks a gallon or forced into a hybrid.

[BlackGT2000]

First off I like am a supporter fo the president, second off, I like fast cars and I haven't seen any fast cars that make 50 MPG. A gas tax would only piss me off. I really don't see that happening. I think changes should be gradual. If cars are getting more efficient...awesome but don't punish people for having used cars. If the auto manufacturers change their acts now than in 10 years there will be 90 percent fuel efficient cars on the road anyway.

[clawhammer]

I was thinking about making a post like this. Yesterday I was at the Chicago Auto Show, and noticed that almost all the Japanese car manufacturers are almost silently introducing sub-compact cars. Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Nissan had something, Suzuki had something, etc. What are the domestic car companies doing? Putting V8s into everything with 4 wheels. Seriously, the average Joe doesn't need 300+ hp to drive his fat ass to work. He needs something that gets 40-50 mpg. If the price of gas keeps going up, the domestic car companies will go bankrupt. And yes, they will deserve to, because they're not giving the consumer what they want, and the consumer will go off and look elsewhere for a car.

I wasn't around for the 70s, but from what I read, this is the 70s all over again. The Japanese are introducing fuel efficient cars, and the domestics are introducing cars with more and more horsepower. I think back in the 70s, GM had like a 40% market share, today they're down to 20%. Unless they improve their cars, and stop blaming their problems on their unionized workers, they will go bankrupt. If I was in the market today for a new car, I would not even want to visit a GM lot, simply because I wouldn't know if they would be around to honor thier warranty.

I beleive that Ford is actually on the right path. They're not in the horsepower war, I mean the Fusion isn't making 300+ horsepower, instead they're focusing on reliability/quality and efficiency. But I don't see any positive product coming from GM for the average Joe in the near future.

[Gotian]

Musashi and i were speaking about this earlier last week, there are alternatives to using petrolium as our fuel source, the problem is that the US as a whole does not want to change, when i say whole i mean the companies not the people. the only way for us to change what we have is if the petrolium companies would say "okay lets do it".

We have engines out there that use other means of fuel such as ethinol and hydrogen, that even raise the combustion rate and allow for more horsepower out of the factory engine. I saw a show on the discovery channel where they too the engine that used hydrogen and it produced close to 300 HP and still got good milage, somewhere around 400 miles to the tank out of a 12 gallon tank. On top of the milage the engine was good for emmisions as well, instead of smoke coming out it was water vapor.

BMW Began working a 700 series called the 750HL that used Hydrogen fuel and sunlight to power the 12 cylinder combustion engine 5.4liter car. The car is now production ready but they need the okay from pretty much every petrolium company out there. Now i know what youre thinking, hydrogen is extremely explosive, they have made a gas tank that is insulated enough to keep the hydrogen -253 degrees celsius where it would not explode. BMW even produced a hydrogen powered mini cooper that made more horsepower off the factory engine with better gas milage and no emmisions.

I suggest looking into stuff like this for your article and incorporate it as an example on alternatives that the US petrolium companies are preventing us from accomplishing. I am not fond of bush, but he has nothing to do with the actions that the companies take, he cannot force them to give in because they are independantly owned.

[TheStang00]

ok i like this stuff... i did a report on the physics of hydrogen power. dont know if you know this, but gasolines efficiency in combustion, towards generating power to move the car is about 23%, hydrogen fuel cells are about 60% effiecient. and hydrogen in an internal combustion engine are 25% more efficient than gas. just some stuff on hydrogen...

as far as a gas tax goes, i think that would just piss people off, gas prices have gone way up and that hasnt stopped people. so i dont think it would matter that much.

clawhammer hit on this, domestic companies (only gm and dodge) are going backwards in efficiency and technology. they stick a frickin hemi or ls1,2,6,7 in everything now. however ford is different, theres and article in time magazine you might want to look at, bill ford is on the cover of it. not many people know this but bill ford is actually an environmentalist. ford has the largest commitment out of any company, not just domestics, to build hybrid cars. not to mention they arent going back to the 60s with 427cid pushrod engines. but since this is on the domestic companies i HIGHLY suggest you read the article in time magazine. something else that was in the article that is somewhat interesting was the concept F-150 they had that had an engine that could run on gas, ethynol, and hydrogen interchangably.

another thing id like to add is that over time i think oil companies will be forced to lower their prices because the demand wont be as high due to hybrid and hydrogen vehicles. im a believer that they are just price guaging because they can, gasoline in america right now is an inelastic product. basically, i think the industry will fix itself, special regulations or taxes wont be needed.

[CassiesMan]

That was in an issue of time? Which one so I can look it up. Also, I believe I read somewhere that the SAE did a test and found that smaller turbocharged engines are more effiecient than big displacement? Any idea on that? And keep the opinions comming, they are really helping me shape out the article. Just a heads up, after I write it, if you guys want I'll post it up here.

[Gotian]

I read about the price gauging report, they researched how long it would be before we actually run out of petrolium since the companies keep saying there is a shortage, they found out that we and our children would be long dead of old age before we actually do run out of oil.

As for smaller turbocharged engines being more efficient then big displacement ones, look at the srt-4's as an example, they get 22 mpg when compared to say a mustang gt which gets 17. the SRT is quick, fast, and light and still gets a good ammount of fuel efficiency, while the mustang is fast but heavy inturn needing more fuel to haul it self around due to its big engine.

Another example is my car which is 1.8turbocharged and i have a 14 gallon tank and i get about 300 mile per tank when compared to musashis who has a 17 gallon tank with a 3.0 engine and gets only about 250-280 to his tank, this is an example to show that the bigger tank is to make up for the lack of fuel efficiency. And to top off this comparison we get the same amount of whp but my car is faster.

[DinanM3_S2]

This was an interesting read about hybrid cars from C&D. Keep in mind that Yates is a bit of a raving uber-conservative that owns an H2. Still, his facts are pretty accurate.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9844

He makes a very good point when he says that the only Hybrid selling really well is the Prius, while the Accord and Civic hybrids arn't faring as well. He attributes this to the fact that the Prius looks different from a regular car. It has become an icon of the hybrid market. When people see you driving a Prius, they know that its a hybrid, while you can't tell the difference between a Civic and a Civic hybrid. He is afraid that people are only in for the hybrids for the statement they are saying about themselves, not to help remove us from our "Addiction to Oil."

C&D also had a couple of articles on actual working H20 cars.

Honda FCX
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9640

BMW H2R
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8655

Im not totally convinced that a gas tax is what we need. What I think we need is a two staged attack on gas consumption. While hydrogen is great, it is a little too far off. Right now, the answer is hybrid cars. We need to make it easy as possible to buy hybrid cars over regular ones. Last year some Californian congressman tried to pass a bill making hybrid owners pay extra taxes because they were paying less at the pump. This is unacceptable. If we can make hybrid cars as inexpensive as a gas alternative, they will sell better. We need to encourage hybrids, not disencourage gas. Right now, people are paying a few thousand more for hybrid cars. Hybrid cars will cut our need for gasoline more and more until we are able to produce hydrogen cars effectively. For some really good reading on the subject, look up a guy named Thomas Friedman.

[TheStang00]

Originally Posted by Gotian

As for smaller turbocharged engines being more efficient then big displacement ones, look at the srt-4's as an example, they get 22 mpg when compared to say a mustang gt which gets 17. the SRT is quick, fast, and light and still gets a good ammount of fuel efficiency, while the mustang is fast but heavy inturn needing more fuel to haul it self around due to its big engine.

your on to something there... but the gt isnt just heavier cause of the engine, its a bigger car.

one problem with hybrids right now is that they are a little over priced. i forget the model, but i remember reading about a car and the hybrid version cost $10k more... over the next tens years or so the price you save on gas still doesnt make up for the extra cost difference.

heres a link to the time article, but you cant read it unless you buy 6 issues for 2 bucks... maybe you could just go find it at a library or something http://www.time.com/time/archive/pre...151755,00.html

[CassiesMan]

Dinan, I actually read a lot of Friedman's stuff, lol. I think he's pretty good and on track. But keep the opinions comming!

[-The Stig-]

I've got two words.

Turbocharged Diesels... or is that three words?.. whatever.

They're highly efficient, and can make damn good power when needed... plus they sound cool.

For example... Dodge Ram Heavy duty trucks with the Cummins Inline 6 Turbo Diesel. They make 325hp, 615ft-lbs. The trucks weigh in roughly at 6100lbs for the 4x4 Quadcabs with a shortbed.

My buddies Dad has a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x2 Quadcab. He averages 18mpg city, and gets 22mpg highway. That's not bad for a full size truck. Especially considering the same truck with the with a Hemi is hard pressed to get 14mpg in the highway.

Also, my buddy, same guy... just bought himself a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Quadcab, also with the Cummins Turbo Diesel. It's new, and needs to be broken in. But currently it gets roughly 15-16mpg highway, they take about 10,000 miles to break in.

That's damn cool, if I do say so myself.

With a Banks Kit, you can up the power 125hp, 260ft-lbs. with a turn of a knob. Then, you can turn it back, and be back to stock power and milege...

mmmmm perfection...

ok... sorry... it's just my infatuation with Dodge Rams with the Cummins... I'll go hide in my moderator corner now.

[Gotian]

Originally Posted by RedNeck383

I've got two words.

Turbocharged Diesels... or is that three words?.. whatever.

They're highly efficient, and can make damn good power when needed... plus they sound cool.

turbo diesels are effective when it comes to gas milage but the problem with those lies in emmisions, and the fact that most people are not going to spend the money to buy trucks. Dont get me wrong, i know they have alot of potential whenit comes to modding but that isnt the subject here. The subject we are speaking is fuel efficiency and a little bit of emmisions as that comes into play when speaking of other means of fuel.

[TheStang00]

^ yes diesel is nice, im anxious to see how the new audi diesel race car will do in lemans. they have already discovered diesel in europe... isnt that the majority of what sells over there? i know they offer the focus over there with a 1.4l turbodiesel.

[DinanM3_S2]

I'd actually like to agree with Redneck and expand on his ideas. We are underutilizing diesel engines in the US. When you compare BMW's European 320i ES with the 320d ES, it makes almost no sense not to get the diesel. The 320i gets 38mpg and does 0-60 in 9.0. The 320d gets 48mpg and does 0-60 in 8.3. There is a 2,000 pound (in the UK) difference between the two favoring the 320i, but I'd be willing to bet you would make up the difference quickly when it comes to prices at the pump. You also pay a higher C02 tax on the 320i then the 320d. In fact, the only gas version of the 3-series that beats the diesel version is the 330i over the 330d.

Diesel could be just as effective as hybrids at reducing our reliance on middle east oil, while keeping much of the performance. If you still doubt diesel's potential for performance, watch Audi's R10 prototype at LeMans this year. Thats right, its a diesel.

[-The Stig-]

Audi already has a badass diesel....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...949&q=Top+Gear

800 miles on a single tank. Damn impressive...

Originally Posted by Gotian

turbo diesels are effective when it comes to gas milage but the problem with those lies in emmisions, and the fact that most people are not going to spend the money to buy trucks. Dont get me wrong, i know they have alot of potential whenit comes to modding but that isnt the subject here. The subject we are speaking is fuel efficiency and a little bit of emmisions as that comes into play when speaking of other means of fuel.

Then, for you, I've got two words again. Bio-Diesel.

Bio-Diesel runs off of a mixture of regular fossil fuel diesel and organic fuels made from corn oil. Burns super clean, and the exhaust smells like french fries. No shit.

Imagine that, sitting in traffic with cars running on bio-diesel... everybody would be hungry for McDonalds fries. They'd double their profits in a year.