free will

beef_bourito · #1 02-09-2006, 01:39 AM

Concidering this is the philosohy forum, im surprised there hasn't been a discussion on free will, there have been many discussions on fate but not free will.

So i'm going to start one.

1) Do you believe in free will?

2) Give your reasons why or why not (be it God, some other religion, logic, etc)

I don't really know, I'm trying to figure out what i believe in right now. anyways logi sais that free will is impossible, physics sais the same. neutons laws of motion say that things will only react one way, therefore the chemicals in your brain will only react one way. if a certain stimulus is given to the brain, there is only one way it will react, then it changes, it's constantly changing, so the next time itwill be different.

Also logic goes agains free will. the different beliefs against free will are: determinism and fatalism. determinism is where your will is determined, therefore your actions are determined, that is why things happen the way they do. fatalism is where something is going to happen simply because itwill, nomatter how hard you try to avoid it, it will happen, kinda like a boulder drops on your head, had you turnd left, the boulder still would have fallen on your head simply because it would have.

The whole logical argument for free will is flawed. YOU determine what your will is, so your will determines what your will is. it creates a paradox.

Now, i was also raised a strong catholic and im not ready to abandon my beliefs just because of this, God promised us free will, im sort of trying to figure out how to work this all together. a belief in something gives comfort, i don't like the idea of living for nothing, what's the point of living if you're going to die and not exist afterwards? you might as well end it now. so i don't want to become atheist. i like the idea of christianity, but i'm finding many flaws through philosophy, such as free will, an all knowing God, how can he know all, which means the future as well, and still allow us to have free will? if he knows what we're goingto do before we do it, we don't really have free will because it was predetermined.

All of these questions caused me great discomfort throughout my 7th and 8th grade becuase it was basically saying that everything i believed was wrong, and that didn't go well with me. it was pretty crappy so i decided to avoid thinking about it, that way i could still believe what i wanted and be comfortable. but im not that easily tricked so i dwelled on it, now im in grae 12 and im pretty apathetic about the whole thing so i can talk about it. there're more important things going on in my life right now, i don't need to spend my time worrying.

fredjacksonsan · #2 02-09-2006, 11:17 AM

Free will: You can drink that shot, or not. Make a choice.

You can speed. Or not.

Fight that loudmouth. Or not.

Burger. Or Subway.

Mitsubishi. Or Subaru.

How can you not have free will? There are hundreds of choices you make each day.

NOBU-SAN · #3 02-09-2006, 01:20 PM

I believe. And that's no pun. I believe in God, so therefore I inderstand free will. The laws of physics have nothing to do with faith or how you decide to handle a situation. It does have something to do with the way you fall down and don't stop until you hit the ground. There is no denying that you make decisions for yourself, that's a very easy way to say " it's not my fault" but that's not a fact, what you do is a direct consequence of your actions.

beef_bourito · #4 02-09-2006, 04:09 PM

in terms of the laws of physics, i was talking about the way your brain functions. if something happens to a certain particle or chemical, there's only one way it's going to react, in that way your brain is just one big complex chemical reaction, or one big complex computer, computers aren't random, they will react a certain way to a certain thing. humans are much the same, they will react in one way to one thing, the difference is that humans adapt. if you could keep track of every atom, every electron, overy proton, etc, you could predict the future, there's only one way it's going to happen. there is the illusion of free will because you choose what you do.

as for the first post. that's freedom of choice, there's a difference. freedom of choice means you choose what you do. will is what makes you choose that choice. the only logical way to explain it is through determinism. free will is a paradox, you choose to do something, why? because your will made you do it. do you deside wat your will is? if you do, what makes you decide that? your will. determinism is that your will is set, you will act in one way to one stimulus. but you adapt so that reaction will change over time.

G-man422 · #5 02-09-2006, 04:15 PM

If you dont believe in free will sumthin is wrong. as it ws already said you have choices. some just have better outcomes than others.

beef_bourito · #6 02-09-2006, 04:20 PM

tell me, what makes you choose one over the other?

and there's nothing wrong with not believing in free will. the vast majority of philosophers and philosophy students since the early 1900's believe in determinism.

eversio11 · #7 02-09-2006, 04:32 PM

I believe that where I am at any given point in my life, that there was a time when I could have made a choice, completely altering my life.

In other words, we have free will, and every miniscule choice we make in our lives creates a sort of snowball effect that completely alters your life path.

beef_bourito · #8 02-09-2006, 04:39 PM

that's still freedom of choice, im talking about what makes you choose one thing over the other. will is not choice, will is more like desire, or personality, or something like that. yes everyone can make a choice but what im suggesting is that you would have made that choice anyways.

can anyone who believes in free will tell me what makes you choose one thing over another.

G-man422 · #9 02-09-2006, 07:23 PM

^ i would say its your personality. if someone makes a choice they want some sort of posative outcome, whether it be imediately or in the long run. I am the kind of person who "Stands Back" and takes a good look at the whole picture to see what type of outcome (good or bad) will come from my choice.

zx2guy · #10 02-09-2006, 08:16 PM

my theory is we all make decisions, and from that there is a ripple effect. ( yes i believe in chaos theory) this might effect your next decision, but it is your decision. i believe in a fague fate. like we all die,< thats fate but how we meet that end, the possibilities are endless on all its tangents. i believe in both god and luck. there is an old proverb "as long as there are tests and pop quizes in school, there will be public prayer". my faith (im roman catholic) is in gods hands, however i also understand that (s)he (<whatever) cant always be there, so i always assume i am alone, but the extra help every now and then is nice. im sure there are those that disagree. i and a friend of mine (she's mormon) we always fight on this philosophical stuff.

beef_bourito · #11 02-09-2006, 08:36 PM

ok, so we've established that your personality determines your decisions. what forms your personality? is it you? a higher power?

G-man422 · #12 02-09-2006, 08:39 PM

^ your experiences in life.

eversio11 · #13 02-09-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

ok, so we've established that your personality determines your decisions. what forms your personality? is it you? a higher power?

That's like asking the meaning of life. There are plenty of theories, but no answers.

beef_bourito · #14 02-09-2006, 10:09 PM

i'm just asking someone to tell me what they believe it is. im trying to prove a point.

G-man422 · #15 02-10-2006, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-man422

^ your experiences in life.

And GOD. (Can't forget the big man upstairs)

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