2000 Si Turbo Questions

[93CivicSiD16HB]

Will any kit turbo be able to handle a higher load (doubtful), explain this?

AND heres the scenario:

Car/Engine: 2000 Civic Si / B16A2 (Stock Engine With Parts Below)

I need a turbo that can run up to ideally 300whp without the need of removing the a/c or power steering etc.

I read about a setup has been proven to run over 507hp/339lb-ft of torque with 24psi of boost safely on a stock b16 with these madifications, BUT the turbo was positioned where the a/c compressor normally sits. (i plan to replace alot more than just these parts along with the proper tuning, but these were just used in that specific project)

Im trying to reach a good 300 horsepower range without lacking cold air on the inside.

ANY help or suggestions would be great!
(really i have no idea how to work a turbo so a good run on that would be sweet, i cant seem to find one, even in search)

[hxgaser]

There is no way in heck that there is a turbo kit out there that generates 500 hp on a stock B16. You will blow your motor, transmission, and axles to pieces within a few minutes. I can guaranty that. Even 300 hp is pushing it too. There are kits out there that you can still keep your stock AC and PS, but you would need other modifications. Such as connecting rod, pistons, valves, springs, seats, axles, and don't forget about the brakes and suspension. With B16, 300+ hp means more than 10 psi boost generally. Yeah, you can install the turbo on a stock motor, but it is bound to blow.

[exman98]

do a google search on turbos and hondas, and learn a little from there. you have a lot to learn

[superbluecivicsi]

http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html

[Schister66]

Originally Posted by hxgaser

Yeah, you can install the turbo on a stock motor, but it is bound to blow.

Hey Superbluecivicsi, what kind of power are you making and how long has it been holding strong??

[superbluecivicsi]

ive been pushing from 10-12psi on my sc34 on my eg hatch b16 for a little over 3 years now. ive had a few other turbos and blown a few other motors in the past, but, thats a long story. getting close to 300whp. probably put around 75k miles on the setup. no problems. used both uberdata and hondata on the setup. both great systems to use. as far as reliability goes, it sat in my garage for a little over a year while i pieced and put things together on the hatch. also, i do not beat the crap out of it everyday. it rarely saw boost and when it did, it was either on the track or trying to pass someone up in traffic. i would also recomend some good axles as i broke 2 already, but, i have autozones lifetime warranty thinking about throwing some new rods and pistons into my other blown b16, but, i have no time for anything lately. got a new job, now switching to a new one in less than a month, then trying to get in grad school, and trying to find some money to pay for the closing cost of a new home while trying to balance the arrival of a new baby is too much for me. im getting old, and thinking about getting out of the scene. i barely even drive the eg hatch and em1 anymore. dont feel like pumping thousands of dollars into a car i dont drive anymore when i can pump it into a home i can live in. when the cars go for sale, AF will be one of the first to know (problem is, no one here ever has any money either)

[hxgaser]

Originally Posted by Schister66

Hey Superbluecivicsi, what kind of power are you making and how long has it been holding strong??

Schister66... Let's not get into this coversation again. I even tried to root for you on the previous fiesco with Moppie. Anyways, yes I agree you can boost a stock motor with 10 to 12 psi. But you can't keep the stock motor if you are planning to drive it hard. As superbluecivicsi says, he has blown a few motors in the past. Also he says his ride rarely sees the boost, and he is contemplating about getting some new rods and pistons. All I am saying is that if someone plans to boost a car, and wants to drive the car to its full potential, one needs to invest in extra goodies.

[iVteC_PoWeR]

he was just asking a question

[superbluecivicsi]

i didnt blow my 2 other b16s due to that. i blew it from boost creep (long story, my fault on this part) and leaning out the AFRs to much on the dyno (back in my intro to uberdata and tuning days :P )

the reason why i thought about swapping out the rods and pistons is because i wanted to make a 600whp monster, not because im only boosting to 300whp.

with a nice conservative tune, 300whp can be driven just like any stock setup. just like any other stock setup, if you beat the crap out of it, it will crap on you too.

[93CivicSiD16HB]

Okay sorry about my first post i was in a bit of a huryy, and it was a litle choppy, but heres a re-post, it's also a little lengthy.

This build was kept in mind for the internals they used that handled an insane power output, as i'm not trying to reach to goal they had in mind.

I read about a setup for a B16A that built up power to see how much a mostly stock B16A could withstand. They first replaced the pistons with Probe Racing Sportsman Race Series Forged Pistons (Prod# 11375-STD) which have a flat top design which lowered the compression of 10.2:1, down to 9.0:1. Also used were Probe Racing Ultralight 4340 Forged Connecting Rods, which were 496 grams, and they noted that the 5.290-inch rods offered much more rod strength than they would take advantage of in this specific build. Here they say that they DID NOT sleeve, guard, or re-machine the block, then used an ARP tapered ring compressor to reuse the old rod bearings. The stock B16A cylinder head was secured using a factory P30 head gasket and a set of stock reused bolts, didint even change the head studs, and used the factory ones, also used were the factory P30 intake and throttle body (all of which i understand to build up in the thought of actually safely relying on the engine) and this was done in the idea of testing strength.

Once back together they fixed the power loss due to compression, by slipping in some Crane Cams Stage 1 Sport Compact Cams, which offer 242 degress of intake duration and 230 degress of exhaust duration. That put them a bit above factory Integrea-R cams, having a 0.457/0.425-inch lift split and also improved the specs on the primary cams, enhancing pre-VTEC performance.

They, from that point, go on to build up to turbo, using a GT66 Turbo from Innovative Turbo, a TurboXS manual wastegate controller, an AEM fuel rail with larger bosch injectors, modded the stock B16A distributor by removing the internal coil to allow them to use with an MSD Ignition amplifier, a FAST engine management system, and Lucas synthetic oil. the process was to drop the timing, dail the air/fuel mixture, and only then running full timing at the new boost level.

After reaching the numbers below they state:
'So the next time someone yaps over the internet how weak the Honda internals are, now you know thay they know so little about them."

It withstood 24 psi and pushed out 507 horses and 339 lb-ft of torque...

Which is wayyy over my goal, but I assuumed these mods (cams, pistons/rods) along with other mods such as cam gears, fuel system etc. would work well with a different turbo (hopefully a kit) to get me to 300 safely on the street.

I understand more is neccessary for the rest of the 00' Si to handle 300whp, and any reccomendations on that subject (suspension, axles, etc), or more on the engine subject (more mods for a safe 300whp without the loss of the a/c or p/s) would be great also.

[hxgaser]

New pistons and rods... I don't consider those honda internals.

[alphalanos]

Yeah, stock doesnt mean new pistons, cams, etc. Stock means you bolt a turbo kit onto an untouched engine. Anyway, if you are looking to turbo, start with something realistic like 250hp or so. Then work your way up. I think once you get above 250hp you're looking at new internals on a B16. At least IMO. Better to be safe.

[93CivicSiD16HB]

Well i think what they were getting at was the whole b16 engine minus the pistons and crankshaft and cams withstood over 500 horses and showed signs of improvement even at that point. But thats not really my discusiion...

What i have so far for the B16 are the Probe Racing Pistons/Rods, and the Crane Cams Stage 1 Cams, along with an updated valvetrain and AEM tru-time cam gears. Do you know what a good update from here would be, mind you Im going for a turbo setup, so i wont need the headers intake etc. but I'm sure anyone answering this knows that. Any help again, is great!

[hxgaser]

I guess the main thing is that you should select a turbo. As mentioned, if you are looking to keep stock AC and PS then you should look for turbo package that is compact. A typical T3/T04 housing should work fine. Also the selecton of exhaust manifold is important. Many tubular exhaust manifolds will require that you remove AC at least. Cast iron manifolds are more restrictive when it comes to actual flow and performance, but bit more compact. Also internal wastegated turbos sometimes help on space requirement. If you are not into custom fabrication of charge pipes, down pipes and etc you might just want to consider getting a prefab bolt on kits and setting different boost level. Any reputable manufacturer such as rev-hard, Greddy, Edelbrock and etc will do the trick. All of these manufacturer have bolt on kits that will work with stock AC and PS. All of these kits can be modified to pull more horses.

But once again, finding a right turbo is the priority. IMO B16 pushing plus minus 300 whp can be achieved with T3/T4 hybrid or GT28 series. There are aboundance of parts as well. If you don't get a kit, then you can worry about the fuel system and routing and etc at that point.

[superbluecivicsi]

I read about a setup for a B16A that built up power to see how much a mostly stock B16A could withstand.

They first replaced the pistons with Probe Racing Sportsman Race Series Forged Pistons (Prod# 11375-STD) which have a flat top design which lowered the compression of 10.2:1, down to 9.0:1. Also used were Probe Racing Ultralight 4340 Forged Connecting Rods, which were 496 grams, and they noted that the 5.290-inch rods offered much more rod strength than they would take advantage of in this specific build. Here they say that they DID NOT sleeve, guard, or re-machine the block, then used an ARP tapered ring compressor to reuse the old rod bearings

when did AF decide that a mildly built block is considered a mostly stock block?

'So the next time someone yaps over the internet how weak the Honda internals are, now you know thay they know so little about them."

It withstood 24 psi and pushed out 507 horses and 339 lb-ft of torque...

acyually, if you drop compression and throw some stronger rods and pistons, at this point, its not really a "stock block" anymore.

Yeah, stock doesnt mean new pistons, cams, etc. Stock means you bolt a turbo kit onto an untouched engine. Anyway, if you are looking to turbo, start with something realistic like 250hp or so. Then work your way up. I think once you get above 250hp you're looking at new internals on a B16. At least IMO. Better to be safe.

my opinion and results say 350whp. boost is boost. the whp is only a measurement used to compare the strength of the individual parts of the block. there are many more factors than just whp to consider.

If you don't get a kit, then you can worry about the fuel system and routing and etc at that point.

managing your AFRs should always be considered as a major part of your setup.................not at certain points or an item that can be had later.