Mr. Goodwrench is OK by me.

[Huney1]

I had some basic maintenace services done and they did a good job and the price was fair so I thought I had found a good Chevy dealer service shop. HOWEVER, then my intake manifold gasket started leaking and you can read the rest in my post below.

[cdru]

It's good that you found a dealer that treats you right. You could probably do the stuff your self cheaper, but at least he isn't charging you an arm and a leg to do trivial stuff.

As to the flush and fuel system cleaning, both are overpriced significantly. You can find the same things elsewhere for at least 1/2 that most likely. I also wouldn't do the injector cleaning unless it was a last-ditch option. Modern fuels have detergents in them and don't have issues as much as in the past. They might be able to get something by doing an on-car injector cleaning, but to do it right you have to take them off and they aren't going to do that for $128

[Huney1]

Edited out to save bandwidth.

[Huney1]

Boy was I in left field. My intake gasket started leaking so I took the service writer a copy of the TSB and asked him to call Atlanta and find out out how much of the replacement cost they would pay to install a new gasket. Told him I had put in a can of Bars Leak to temporarily stop the leak. Said he'd get back in touch with me, waited a week and no call so called him and he said "they" said in order to diagnose the problem it had to be leaking and I said it wasn't leaking at present, and they had never heard of the TSB and couldn't find it. Say what? In my opinion, every Chevy dealer in the US knows about those defective gaskets and IMO it was a pure cop out. Never heard of the TSB? Well, NTHSA had it listed on their website, DUH . . . . http://www.carcomplaints.com/Chevrol...000/tsbs.shtml
See the last one in the list.
"ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE

• TSB #030604030 -- MULTIPLE DRIVEABILITY SYMPTOMS OF LONG OR HARD STARTS, CHUGGLE, ROUGH IDLE AND LIGHT OR INTERMITTENT MISFIRE DUE TO CLOGGED FUEL INJECTORS. *TT (NHTSA ID #10002166, JUNE 01 2004)
• TSB #01353 -- ENGINE MISFIRE DUE TO INJECTOR FRETTING CORROSION. *TT (NHTSA ID #10007937, JANUARY 01 2004)
• TSB #030601010B -- ENGINE OIL OR COOLANT LEAK. *TT GM REMINDER. *TT (NHTSA ID #10004768, OCTOBER 01 2003)"

http://www.noln.net/features/feature3.html Last paragraph it makes reference to the TSB, but that one was superseded by the above one.
Never heard of the TSB? I don't think so Tim.

[534BC]

I was not impressed with either of my two chevy dealers. They do not seem to want to diagnose, just r&r parts or read codes. If they happen to "guess" it wrong, they will not make it right.

In fact I see that a lot here on this forum to replace fuel pumps, plugs, filtsrs, ect. without ever a recommendation to diagnose the problem. Knowing the high priority replacement parts is nice, yet without a proper diagnosis it tends to make the rate go up and very unhappy drivers.

[Huney1]

Yup, I never had that much but basic maintenance done at Chevy place, but certainly I undesrtand where you're coming from. They make a big profit on 'certified' GM parts, so of course they like to replace instead of repair. I wanted the air filter changed and Chevy charged me $18. bucks for it and could have bought it at any independent parts store for around six bucks.

Now then, as for coping out on the leake manifold gaskets;
Look how many GM vehicles had, or have, the problem:
2000-2003 Buick Century
2002-2003 Buick Rendezvous
1996 Chevrolet Lumina APV
1997-2003 Chevrolet Venture
1999-2001 Chevrolet Lumina
1999-2003 Chevrolet Malibu, Monte Carlo
2000-2003 Chevrolet Impala
1996-2003 Oldsmobile Silhouette
1999 Oldsmobile Cutlass
1999-2003 Oldsmobile Alero
1996-1999 Pontiac Trans Sport
1999-2003 Pontiac Grand Am, Montana
2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
2001-2003 Pontiac Aztek
with 3.1L or 3.4L V-6 Engine (VINs J, E - RPOs LG8, LA1)
Thirteen GM models and can you begin to imagine how many tens of thousands, maybe half a million or more, GM engines were built with that leaky gasket? Check the link and it names the states where GM has been sued in the class action lawsuit. http://www.imcool.com/articles/antif...le-Excerpt.pdf

How many thousands and thousands good, hardworking folks bought one and threw down their hard earned money then had to go spend more money to fix it because GM copped out and refused to help with the repair expense same as they did with me. Fortunately I bought it from big a Honda dealer and they are good folks and are checking around to see where they can get it fixed at cost.

Well, the end result speaks for itself because in 05 & thus far in 06, GM has LOST over TEN BILLION dollars and laying off thousand of workers, shutting down plants and selling GMAC, General Motors Acceptance Corporation that finances GM vehicles. I have read many posts wherein the writer says something like, "this is the last GM vehicle I will ever own," and you better believe unhappy customers bit GM in the butt big time. Another thing that baffels me; GM continues to use the DexCool in their vehicles.

It is very interesting that while GM is in dire straits, Honda, Toyota and Nissan sales are doing well. That new Civic Si with the 197 HP engine near impossible to find one for sale at a Honda dealer because they are overwhelmed with customer orders. If you feel we shoud buy American made vehicles, get this; Honda uses more American made parts in their cars than GM, Ford and Chrysler.

My last two cents: When I was a little kid my Grandad told me, "Son as you go through life, from time to time, you will get dog bit and it hurts, but there isn't much you can do about it. BUT, just don't let the same dog bite you twice . . . ." (Which brings us back to doo-ree-mee.) We always drove Fords and Hondas and THIS IS THE FIRST AND LAST GM VEHICLE WE WILL EVER OWN. Sound familiar ? ? ? ? CHOMP-CHOMP! <Sound of me biting GM in the butt.>

[Glen_T]

The reason GM still uses DexCool is because it is not the primary cause of the intake gasket failures on the 3.4L engine. It may aggravate it, but it is not the root cause. Also, they have likely re-formulated it to add more silicates much like Texaco did with the extended life coolants in use on the large semi-tractor diesels....Glen

[Huney1]

I got'cha Glen. You said you wanted to see one of the defective gaskets so I'm going to e mail you diredct so I can hook up and send you some pictures and maybe snail mail you the old gasket.

Van in the independent repair shop now and my share will be $285. Honda dealer stepped up to the plate and paid half and the shop said they have done as many as three gasket replacements a week and usually charge more. Honda sends them a lot of used car trade in work so they gave me a senior citizens break. I tell you what, it's a sad day when a Honda dealership has to help a customer pay to get a GM factory defect repaired. And that nonsense the Chevy writer shot me about not being able to find the TSB. . . . .?? Yeah, . . right. The independent repair shop does so many gasket replacements he had the TSB on his desk and said he keeps two of the TSB parts list on the shelf because he does so many.

What I should do is when it gets fixed take a jar of Vaseline and a copy of the TSB to the Chevy dealership owner along with my repair order showing where Honda paid half and I paid half and ask the owner to go back to the service writer and use the Vaseline to stick the TSB and repair order where the sun don't shine.

Naaahhh . . . . I;m a nice old Dude and that would be to cruel.
'Prolly just give the Vaseline and copies to the owner and tell him to give them to Mr Goodwrench service writer with my fondest regards. Yeah, that'll work. THEN, let them explain to the owner what went down.

Yup, one more time, second verse same as the first, . . . "This is my first and last GM vehicle and henceforth it's good ole Fords and Hondas for us."

Ya'll be cool and have a nice week end. Huney Bear.

[Glen_T]

No need....I have a co-worker that had to replace his, and he brought them in.

As I suspected, the set he has did not have load stops in them, so the gasket carrier looks to be overcrushed. The actual sealing element looked a little deteriorated, but I wouldn't say it was "eaten up". Instead, it looked like relative motion and load loss of the joint, as well as thin sections in the carrier gasket cause the carrier to crack and allowed the polymer section to push out.

Not saying that Dex-Cool is a wonderful product - I dislike all extended life coolants since they promote a lack of maintenance of vehicles and are pretty aggressive. But I think in this case, the problem is the lack of a solid joint.....Glen

[Huney1]

Roger all that.
"I dislike all extended life coolants since they promote a lack of maintenance of vehicles and are pretty aggressive." Astounding how a lot of folks rarely open the hood to check fluid levels and being an old pilot I check ours every Sat morning. I'm a preventitive maintenance freak and I flush and chage coolant every two years and change brake fluid and power steering fluid every two years. Bygone days you got gas the station attendant checked your oil & coolant while the gas was pumping, but those 'good ole daze' days are long gone.

All-ritey then kind Sir, always a pleasure chewin' the fat with ya' and you have a fine week end.