Honda Passport 4-cam timing problems

[olderguy]

I replaced my belt--it wasn't broken. It ran fine but I had forgotten to re-torque my new water pump and it turned out to leak. After awhile I went back in and did it over. By that time the marks on the belt were gone. Thinking this would cover everything I merely made marks on the belt and the various sprockets, so didn't see any need to align them with the timing marks (mistake). What I didn't realize was that the cam sprockets were not "snapped" to their positions (I hadn't had this experience since the first time I aligned everything before removing the belt). When I released the tensioner, they snapped to whatever position was closest. When I tried to re-align my marks with the various sprockets, they would no longer align. I realized what had happened and read the book, carefully aligning the crankshaft pulley's notch with the oil pump mark and rotated the cam sprockets until each "snapped" to where their marks aligned with the marks on the valve covers. It had run fine after my first installation but when I re-started it it ran really badly--it felt like half the engine was not firing. I took it back apart and went through it very carefully, making sure that when the crank sprocket was at the mark, #2 piston was at TDC; went through the cam sprocket rotations until each went 9 steps and back to where it snapped to the right mark. Put it back together, no improvement. I haven't done anything to any other parts. Any suggestions? I am assuming that crankshaft positon + Camshaft position is all there is--am I wrong? Could I still have something out of phase? There's one or two phrases in the Haynes manual that are puzzling.

[superbluecivicsi]

put the cam timing at tdc and crank timing at tdc, then move three teeths then tighten. the haynes is pretty much straight forward. what are those puzzling phrases you refer to?

[olderguy]

Now I don't know what you're talking about with the 3 teeth--nothing about that in anything I've read. The Haynes book, like all the others including the book used by the Honda dealer, shows the crankshaft divot and keyway aligned with the mark on the block; the green-painted line on the camshaft sprockets aligned with the cast line on the heads; period--as if that's all that's needed. That may be true if the belt is merely being replaced, the first time it was but then when something has been changed it doesn't tell you anything about getting it all back together. The Haynes book says, "...rotate the left (driver's side) camshaft timing belt sprocket clockwise until it "springs" into place; this could take up to nine turns of the sprocket. At this point the mark on the sprocket will still not be in the proper position--turn it a further 1/4 turn (90-degrees) and align the mark on the sprocket with the mark on the valve cover. To bring the right (passenger's side) cylinder bank camshafts into the proper phase rotate the camshaft sprocket until it "springs" into position; again, this could take up to nine revolutions. When this sprocket springs into position the timing marks on the sprocket and valve cover should be in alignment." How can the left sprocket be aligned with the mark ("Springing into place") and yet also be in alignment when you've rotated it another 90 degrees? After talking to 2 mechanics at the local Honda dealer I don't think they know; and after talking to other Honda mechanics I'm told vague things about how sometimes they have to do it 4 times before they get it right! Yet the Internet, library resources, and the Haynes book itself--except for these mystery parts--all make it seem like, if the cam sprockets have "sprung" into place, but are in place; and the crank sprocket is aligned, that's all it takes. I'm missing something because I think I've done all the things they say, at least I've gone around "up to 9 'springs'" on each side--even doing the driver's side first, although I don't see why that would matter--several times with no success. There must be something I'm missing.

[superbluecivicsi]

ive personally never had a timing change be that difficult. heres some reference for you.

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/timingbelt/tbelt.php