is this possible n realistic

[matt11583]

ok guys, im new to integras n most imports in general. the only ones ive ever dealt with are 300zs n supras. ive always been w american muscle cars n firebirds ect....i recently bought an integra bc it was a good solid car that is relibale n affordable but i have started to really like it. first which enginen is in it...its a 97 ls with an auto(unfortunatly)I plan on starting to mod it some but am avoiding the whole ricer look.(no offense) I plan on doin the basic intake, header, exhaust, cam....but then im not sure where to go next. my plan is by summer of 07 to be running 11's...is that a realistic goal with this car. i do not want to use nitrous so i was leanin toward a turbo kit....who makes good kits for integras that can get u to 11's....after teh 4 basic mods i listed wehre should i turn next to get the best rusults....wat works effectivly in these cars, in the firebirds i always changed out gears but ive heard that doesnt help much in a integra. wat should i do with the ecu to get me there and how much work will the fuel system need...will the stock tranisiton be able to supporst that much power or will it need to be replace or stroked...and how about the internals as far as pistons and rings...pretty much im tryin to get a feel for wat works best in a integra and how far i can push it....thanks for all your help

[TurboGSR96]

In order to help you at all is your car an GSR? LS? what?
Whew...well first order of business is dont go switching gears...lol. There are only 3 companies I can think of off the top of my head that sell turbo kits up to and exceeding 700hp.

They are www.full-race.com
www.turboneticsinc.com
www.jgenginedynamics.com

an 11 second integra will require roughly 350-400 hp with slicks
a realistic price for what you are trying to accomplish is going to be probably more than what you paid for the car.....in excess of 10 grand. im sure there are gonna be member that tell you that you can build it for much cheaper... if you plan to turbo you can save yourself some money by not buying an intake or an header as they would be useless when you turbo your car, the cams you buy would probably be wrong once the car is boosted. start saving your money....compare kit prices and piece it together yourself prices and start saving for the goal of turbo and dont waste your money elsewhere. if i could do it all over again the first thing I would of bought was an Engine Management System (will save you thousands down the road)
basic kit consists of
Turbo Manifold
Turbo
Blow off valve
Wastegate
Bigger Injectors
Intercooler/piping
Misc fittings and shit

I know I got way over 10K in mine but she is a soldier

The stock internals on a GSR are good for about 7-8 psi safely and should get you in the high 200hp range at the wheels. I think a bolt on kit from GReddy does mid 12's with slicks.
After about 10psi the internals are going to be jeapordized and the time will come that you blow the motor. Once again you will probably hear from other members that they have done it or they know somebody that boosts more than that on stock internals (believe who u want) but bottom line is the stock bottom end on a GSR is "shaky" at around 300hp.

[Schister66]

Originally Posted by TurboGSR96

The stock internals on a GSR are good for about 7-8 psi safely and should get you in the high 200hp range at the wheels.After about 10psi the internals are going to be jeapordized and the time will come that you blow the motor. Once again you will probably hear from other members that they have done it or they know somebody that boosts more than that on stock internals (believe who u want) but bottom line is the stock bottom end on a GSR is "shaky" at around 300hp.

BULLSHIT! Look on Honda-tech...there are GSR's that are making 450+whp on stock engines. I'm going to be pushing 240-250whp daily and 300-320whp at the track. All of this is on the set up in my sig. My tuner thinks w/ a little bigger turbo (SC61 or T3/60-1) i could safely make 350-380whp easy.

[Schister66]

Greddy kits don't push into the 12's for another thing and on your list you forgot to write anything about management....p28 w/ Crome.....

FullRace would be a good place to contact, but honestly i would and am building myself a kit because if you read up on the subject enough, you'll realize that itsn not that difficult to do it yourself!

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by Schister66

BULLSHIT! Look on Honda-tech...there are GSR's that are making 450+whp on stock engines. I'm going to be pushing 240-250whp daily and 300-320whp at the track. All of this is on the set up in my sig. My tuner thinks w/ a little bigger turbo (SC61 or T3/60-1) i could safely make 350-380whp easy.

If you think you are going to make those numbers on stock internals then you had better drive like your grandmother, or prepared to break things, frequently.



matt11583 remember there is a lot more to a fast car than just the engine.
While its possible to build an engine capable of pushing an Integra into the 11s, you also need to build the rest of the car to go with it.
Expect to spend a lot of money, do a lot resurch, and go through a lot of disapointment before you get there

[matt11583]

ok....so wat im hearing mostly is that id be better off saving for the turbo before i mess with anything else in the engine. right? it is an ls as i stated in teh first post, 97 ls with an auto, u siad that stock internals on a gsr r good for 7-8 psi....does that mean that an ls isnt goin to be able to support that mush or are they almost the same...as far as engine managements systems go, who makes good ones, and correct me if im wrong but if i got it before the turbo, wouldnt i have to reprogram it again after teh turbo to increase fuel ratio and everything?? and as far as piecing my own turbo kit together, im new to turbos so what size turbo should i look for to get me the power that i want... and which engine is in this car...im seeing product for b-series, d-series, n h-series???and when im building the kit, do i need to look for a fuel pump as well or can the bigger injectors work effienctly with a stock pump???

[Schister66]

Originally Posted by Moppie

If you think you are going to make those numbers on stock internals then you had better drive like your grandmother, or prepared to break things, frequently.

So are you a tuner? I didn't really think so...and have you ever heard of Jeff Evans?? HE tunes cars that run that type of power daily and have no problems...also MASE does a lot of tuning on high HP stock engine/stock sleeve set ups. I'm not worried about it at all and i think you should know a little more about your subject before you go "enlightening" us all about it. Look at SuperBlueCivicSi's set up...294whp on a stock B16 and i'm sure he doesn't drive like he's going to the grocery store.

Go to Honda-tech, you'll find all your answers you're looking for w/o the heresay info you're getting here!

[Schister66]

this should clear up any confusion!

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1478127

also there are some good numbers on this page, but not all of them are stockers...

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1501150

[hxgaser]

Originally Posted by matt11583

ok....so wat im hearing mostly is that id be better off saving for the turbo before i mess with anything else in the engine. right? it is an ls as i stated in teh first post, 97 ls with an auto, u siad that stock internals on a gsr r good for 7-8 psi....does that mean that an ls isnt goin to be able to support that mush or are they almost the same...as far as engine managements systems go, who makes good ones, and correct me if im wrong but if i got it before the turbo, wouldnt i have to reprogram it again after teh turbo to increase fuel ratio and everything?? and as far as piecing my own turbo kit together, im new to turbos so what size turbo should i look for to get me the power that i want... and which engine is in this car...im seeing product for b-series, d-series, n h-series???and when im building the kit, do i need to look for a fuel pump as well or can the bigger injectors work effienctly with a stock pump???

I guess people are getting into a heated conversation, but going back to your original question... Oh just to let you know, I am a convert too. From big V8s to I4s. (But I still like good'ol displacement monsters)

Anyways, 11 secs on a NA I4 is really tough to do. I think there are people who do it, with serious internal mod and feeding alcohol and stuff, including engine swap and etc. Unless you have serious dough to drop, forced induction is the simplest way to go for a 11 sec car. Probably turbo. Schister66 has points where Honda internal are pretty tough. I think the stock crank is good to 450 or so horses. But if you are going turbo and looking at some serious horses, I would invest in a better valve train. Honda's are meant to be wound up. Stock springs might be pushing it at 8000 redline with acceleration provided by a forced induction. Stock springs have no problem pushing 8000 or even higher rpm, but they will have problems if they reach that rpm at significantly faster rate than the stock set up.

So like you said, if you are planning on a new cam, get new valves, springs and there goodies to go with it. Also unlike my old 390 ford, you can't just turn your distributor, change airmixture at carb, and change jets and call it done. You need to tune your car according to your setup by modding the ecu. Anyways, good luck.

[TurboGSR96]

Schister66 has points where Honda internal are pretty tough. I think the stock crank is good to 450 or so horses. But if you are going turbo and looking at some serious horses, I would invest in a better valve train.

What happened here, i dunno. Yes the stock crank is good but it is the pistons and rids that are weak (I DONT CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS THEY ARE WEAK)

[TurboGSR96]

Schister66 has points where Honda internal are pretty tough. I think the stock crank is good to 450 or so horses. But if you are going turbo and looking at some serious horses, I would invest in a better valve train.

Not so much the valvetrain as it is getting as much air into
the engine as possible with the porting work. the more air and fuel you
force into an engine the more power you can make.
The stock crank is good but it is the pistons and rods that are weak (I DONT CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS THEY ARE WEAK) i will not comment any further on this subject because it seems people in here base their info on what they have seen on a webpage or saw in a magazine than what they have actually experienced in real life. Bottom line call a reputable tuner shop that professionally builds honda engines and they will tell you whats up

[TurboGSR96]

BULLSHIT! Look on Honda-tech...there are GSR's that are making 450+whp on stock engines.

Hehe......bro, if you think that bottom end would hold up any longer that 13 seconds or so pushing as much air and fuel into that engine as would be required to make 450hp, i bet my last dollar something will fail. I could probably boost my car to 35 psi for 5 seconds or so and pull one hell of a dyno run too if i wanted to but it wont last.

[Schister66]

those engines i know won't last long, but 300whp seems to be the norm wherever you look on Honda-tech and they don't have any problems.....

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by Schister66

So are you a tuner? I didn't really think so...

And you are a "tuner"? No you are some deluded little boy who has read to many magazines and is still niave enough to believe everything he reads on the Internet. Whats worse is you seem to belive that having a parts list in your sig that you are paying someone else to fit makes you an expert.

Now while I might not be a "tuner" either, I have been working on cars and rebuilding engines for longer than you have been able to say the word "turbo".

I have owned and worked on more B series engines then you ever knew existed, and on Honda's that you will never see unless your mommy buys you a plane ticket and a passport.



Honda builds such lovely efficant engines, that are so easy to rev, and capable of such high revs and high hp per L numbers because they use very light weight very well engineered internals.
They are designed to work only with in the confines of the engines orginal state of tune with a reasonable amount of room for abuse.
Putting 400+hp onto a stock B series bottom end will destroy the rods assuming you could get it to run long enough with out the huge compession produced from the boost required and engines static C.R. melting and cracking the pistons.
Changing the rods and pistons will solve this of course, but sustained high boost and high hp will make the block flex, hence you need a bearing cradle.
Suddenly you no longer have a stock B series engine.



So little Shitster66 stop talking out of your arse and stick to reading and asking questions. Then when you have actualy built your own engine, and done your own work you can try and give advice.









matt11583 sorry for the interuption.

Im not totaly familar with the US models, but I believe the LS is the base model Integra, very similar to the LXi sold here and in Japan.
It makes a great base for a race car, which if you want to run 11s is almost what you are doing to have to do.
At full weight, i.e. a car thats still useable on the streen you will need well over 300hp, that might not sound like much if you have been playing with big V8s in the past, but coming out of a 1.8l engine its the equivilant of making over 700 hp from a 5.0L V8.
It is possible, but you have to know what your doing, and pre prepared to spend some money.
That level of performance is also, as I mentioned above well beyond the stock Integra Chassis, and if you want to be safe then you will need major suspension and brake up grades as well.

If your really serious about this then its a great project, but its going to be a lot of work, just becareful who you listen to, and don't believe everything you read on the internet

[matt11583]

thanks for the help everyone...i understand that the stock internals are going to need to be replaced to get this done...i completely agree with wat im hearing from moppie...(thanks) i understand i need brakes and suspension mods but they are pretty much the same as wat im used to workin on so i wasnt using time in here to talk about it...ill ask later if i need alittle help but im confident that i can handle that part of the project on my own....The last thinkg that im tryin to figure out is A. how big of a turbo do i need to get around 350rwhp(from wat i can tell that is about how much i need for 11s) and B. if you are sayin i need to do the turbo kit before other mods...is there anything i need to do to prep the engine before i install the turbo??