OK, so how to respond?

[MPWR]

Freakmech's rant does seem to be giving some much needed opportunity for some venting. It's also bringing up some interesting points. It's nice to see mods leaving the thread to run it's course- I think the discussion has some value. It's clearly going to run through several pages.

One point that's been brought up is responding to builds of newer/younger builders. What do you say when someone posts pics of a build in which their skills clearly have a lot of room for developing? I skip a lot of in progress threads, and I usually follow only the handfull that interest me- but part of this is because I don't want to figure out what to say. OK, I'm not going to tell someone their build is crap- not my style. I'm also not going to say "awesome duude, that's SOOO fly!", unless I really mean it (partially because I'm AIMspeach impaired). But if I offer some tidbit of advice, recognizing it may or may not be useful, is that welcome? Or does it come accross a sniping/criticizing? Keep it to myself and not hurt any feelings? Or arrogantly offer to take another newbie under my mighty, experienced wing (well rotor blade, but same difference)?

Generally, I'm happy to leave younger builders to themselves. They seem to have a relatively short half life here, so it's only the really dedicated ones that stick around. But I'm not really sure what they're hoping for in responses when they post an unpainted build, or a body mod on a diecast. I really don't want to turn anyone away- young builders are the future of the hobby, and anyone who's following Tamiya's release schedule can recognise this hobby needs all the future we can give it. Anyone who can be enlightened to the one true glorious path of plastic kit building, and turned away from the abominations that are diecasts, is a soul worth saving.

I'm not trying to decide a forum policy, or even really an individual policy- just to hear people's thoughts. What would you want to hear if you were 14 and on your second build? What would be useful, and encourage you to build and post more? What would be hurtful, and cause you to write off this forum of old assholes, and maybe this hobby too? Thoughts of younger builders are welcome also.

So- what do you think??

Keep firing, assholes!

[Vric]

I think friendly advice and constructive comment are always welcomed on a kit. I try to always find something I like on a kit, but sometime I see nothing. So I simply don't reply (don't worry, it's not because I don't reply your thread that I don't like your work.. time is a factor too )

On the other hand, people that Say "Awesome, this thing is sick" on a piece of shit should be more construction. Good feedback can be as bad as bad one. If people would try to be constructive, give suggestion, tips to improve, then I think this place would be hobby heaven... But I don't think it will ever happen.

[willimo]

I used to make it a point of offering crits to people, especially modelers who were obviously rookies. However, so often the reply has been that they don't care or that I'm a total jerk for calling it out, I've decided to instead keep mum unless someone specifically asks for constructive criticism. I always ask for criticism, and though I may not always heed them, I listen and like to hear them. Sometimes I wish this place was more like a writing worskshop, where it was just assumed that people would be looking over your work with a critical eye, and voicing any concerns, tips, or opinions would be more accepted, nay, encouraged. Instead, if I'm not posting in a thread for someone I know, or don't have anything glowingly positive to say, I probably won't say anything at all.

But alas: it doesn't seem to work the way it could.

[GabrieLN]

for me, i believe in receiving honest comments. if my build suck, trash it. but do give me suggestions on how it can be improved. there's no point in giving each other lip service. at the end of the day, when we look at our models, we know that it ain't as good as what everybody says when they try to be nice. just my point of view.

[KTem]

Criticism is important - after all, that's why you post your work, no? At least that's why I post, to improve my models. (It's been a long time since I posted a finished car though, lack of time... ).

Of course, positive comments are always nice, it's great to hear someone likes your model. But criticism isn't a bad thing really, it has to be put nicely though. And with some argumentation, because saying "that sucks" isn't going to get the builder anywhere.

[pre98zetec]

k..

[mike@af]

As I posted in the Chad's thread, constructive criticism can often times be the best help for modeling. But often times I dont know how to point it out, just as you said. Many people may think their build is better than it really is. Not to say that in a demeaning way. But When its not that great, and you want to help them out, they often reject any criticism and will get pissed off at the person.

When I give constructive criticism I have the best intentions in mind, and I want anything but the person to hate me for trying to help them out. Many of them take it the wrong way. So what do we say? if anything at all?

[bigfrit]

Seems like AF is having his periods again, and I for one, like all this discussion about it. Shows a forum which is pretty active with interested people who want to improve what is already pretty nice IMHO.


I read the response by eminent Mr. Willimo and have to say that this monkey is too in the same boat. I believe giving critics is way easier to people who have already achieved a certain level of modeling, they seem to be overall more responsive to it.
If all responses in threads were just like "yeah, man that shit is awesome", I don't believe the forum would have much use overall, other then to brag about what you made, without improving the skills.

And otherwise, is it actually such a bad thing overall more zit-faced youngsters (dunno how to call them otherwise). If we 'd look at the greater picture, this would mean the hobby isn't going that bad at all, more new builders, more models to be built, more interesting takes on subjects and more overall improvement.

I know i m not a supergood modeler, but hey, for me AF is about the best website there is on car modeling!


so don't get me wrong, I very much like it, but analogically, it's like having a Ferrari, sometimes that needs to be cleant from crap too.

back to you, monkeys

[willimo]

I'm eminent!

And your Trabant has cemented you into a "supergood" modeler in my mind, Oli.
And your comments have cemented you as "superchouet," as well.

[bigfrit]

Originally Posted by willimo

I'm eminent!

And your Trabant has cemented you into a "supergood" modeler in my mind, Oli.
And your comments have cemented you as "superchouet," as well.

Let's all have some tasty candy and give each other a group hug!

oh and if you all behave there will be a nice bowl of cocoa afterwards!

Oli

[gionc]

Why do you worry about rookies reply? I think no one of us post for a good feedback: as Mike said we're a community and we simply share, our best and also our worse sometime, at our friends benefit.

So, not reasons to me for worry concernig a member's reply, if I explain my position w/o offend anyone and with helpful spirit. There's a kind of good sense which link a lot of people here: if a rookie say you asshole for a criticism a lot of other peoples know how settle with him: you said Mike: we all are friends also if we not meet personally.

So I prefere criticism on my threads, I'll tactful reply

[lotus_man]

To my mind critisim can only be a good thing, as long as it's well meant and delivered. However, my view seems to be in the minority so I normally just keep quite. I will however comment on builds that I'm particularly impressed by, or which inspire me.

I also find it hard to comment on builds on the net as often you end up critising the photography more than the actual model, and those are two very different skills.

[Hiroboy]

Speaking for myself I love critisim, no really I do, it has pushed me forward on many subjects, website design, model making and what was my job CAD Draughting.

I designed a Smashing Pumpkins Website which got slagged off big time online, so I spend a 7 evenings for 2 weeks working on a new design.
Which was tons better , it even came 2nd place in the 1997 UK Web Awards for Fan Sites (beaten by a Spice Girls webSite).

If peolpe say you work is great when it's not you don't push yourself to try harder, Pleanty of modelers here make me push harder, jsut by veiwing their work.

So I say, lets be honest, they (and me) will be greatfully in the end if we are honest.

Also must admit I dont post in a thread if I have nothing great to say (Chicken I know) but that said I don't read evey thread so Don't be offended if I didn't post in yours.

So in future I'm going to try and be honest with my comments, so watch out.

[drunken monkey]

those who have been through a design school system will know that in a crit, you will hardly ever get blind praises.
even now, a client will hardly ever tell you what's good, only what is bad.

a bit of a tangent now...
you got beaten by the spicegirls?

[Inservible]

I'm with Hiroboy; The only way to improve yourself is knowing and accepting the truth; why you would want to deny it?
I don't post my wips because I don't have a camera, but when I get one, please don't hide me the truth.
Sorry for my english, it's a little rusty