A few pre engine pulling questions

[Thor06]

As many of you know, Mikes Talon took a shit and we are going to be pulling the engine soon. We are going to do a mixed stock/aftermarket rebuild. Mike is just saving money for a month or two then we are going to get all the parts at the same time, also waiting will give northern MN time to warm the fuck up. We plan on getting the SBR rebuild kit for the bottom end, aftermarket spings and retainers if the stockers arent in good condition, a lightweight flywheel, an aftermarket clutch, an exhaust manifold, and DSM link so we can tune that fucking knock out.

Heres the questions:
- We are aiming for a quick revving and high revving 2.0. On FP2 (pretty close to 272's) cams and a SBR 50 trim, how high would it be beneficial to rev?
- We were thinking ACT 2600, what do you guys think?
- Lighter flywheel means quicker revs, correct?
- Which flywheel should we go with? We were thinking ACT to match the clutch, but no real reason other than that.
- Is there anything inside the tranny we should replace while the bitch is out?
- Any info on the pacesetter tubular exhaust manifold?
- About how many hoses/wiring harness things will we have to disconnect to get the engine out?

Any and all input/info would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

[scottsee]

Humm, thats a big assortment of questions. On non-dual valve spring setup I would go with Fp2x cams, their the same price, but have better top end then the fp2's. Check out FP.com and look at their cam charts. You can get ZEX/Comp cams on ebay for alot less then ordering them through FP. Their the same thing.

ACT would be my first choice asside from SBR clutch kits. Their stronger and I believe they are less $$ then ACT's.

Lighter Flywheel means less contrifigual forces acting on the engine, lighting up the load on the crankshaft. It will increase your revs. I've read possitive things and negitive things going with a lightweight flywheel. Typicaly people in the Drag raceing seriers like to use heavier flywheels to keep the RPM's up when they shift. You can search on here about that, I beleve Keven wrote why he likes using the stock flywheel.

Unless your willing to send in your tranny to shep or TRE I would suggest not touching the tranny. If you goto sheps website you can see what upgrade options are recomended. I wouldn't worry about it on a 50 trim.

[crunchymilk55]

I would use a stock flywheel. Revving faster isn't better IMO

[Thor06]

Ok, I did some looking into clutches/flywheels. scottsee, good call on the SBR kit, I thought that the ACT 2600 on eBay was like $300 and that the SBR one was like $500. The cheapest I saw on eBay was $400 shipped and the SBR one was ~$380 shipped. Also, good call on keeping the RPM's up between shifts, but why isnt it better to rev quicker? Also, how much does a stock flywheel weigh? The ACT ($220) one is like 12lbs while the Fidanza ($180) is 8 lbs. Stuff is starting to get put into motion, we are supposed to have 50+ degree days in the next week or so, but we are in the middle of northern MN! As soon as we find a place for the engine to stay when it gets out of the car, we're going to get an engine jack and a stand and start getting ready to get it out. Any rough idea as to how many wiring harness things we are going to have to unplug when we go to take it out? I dont need to know exact numbers, locations, or jobs, just an idea so we dont get worried if we disconnect less than we thought there was. So those fp2x cams can be used on stock stuff? They recommend dual springs, but if stockers will work ok then why not? I checked the maps, very interesting, I dont remember seeing them before. Thanks guys, keep the comments rolling. Also, anyone have or know where I can find a flow map for an SBR 50 trim? It would be the same as a garret 50 trim since SBR uses a garret chra right?

[Blackcrow64]

I heard that the pacesetter exhaust manifolds crack and warp with the heat... Has anyone else heard this, or experienced it, too?

[Pedro F]

I would go with act 2600 with street disc, stock flywheel,evo3 manifold from SBR, and 2g o2 housing or tubular o2 housing from SBR, get some higher spring rate valve springs, some nice titanium retainers, balace shaft removal kit from SBR, and you will have to disconect all wiring and all the hoses that are conected to the firewall and radiator.

Pedro

[scottsee]

I think the stock flywheel weighs around 19lbs. The Mechanical Effency of an engine lives and dies with its weight. Its a lenghty topic. Simply. The less your powertrain weighs, the faster your drivetrain will recieve energy, and the more toque you'll recieve when you jam your foot to the floor. On one hand you have an increase of power, and in another you have the ability to see abnoral wear from excessive engine speeds. Not that a simple lightend flywheel would give you a problem like that.

If you shift from 2nd to 3rd in a 2g gsx with stock transmition at 7800 rpm you'll be at 5164 rpm after the shift. No big deal on a t-25 becasue you wont be shifting that high, or be near effecny anyways. On a 14b its also no loss. But unless you are using no lift to shift your rpm's will drop below 5164 depending drag and mechanical coeffencys. wich means that on a larg turbo you will have a harder time keeping your turbo spooled.

Basicly. The heavier the fly the more rotating mass will be spinning to keep the rpms from droping under the boost threshold of larger turbos.... It just depends on what your building your car for.. Autocross, drag, street.

[ez1286]

Originally Posted by scottsee

I think the stock flywheel weighs around 19lbs. The Mechanical Effency of an engine lives and dies with its weight. Its a lenghty topic. Simply. The less your powertrain weighs, the faster your drivetrain will recieve energy, and the more toque you'll recieve when you jam your foot to the floor. On one hand you have an increase of power, and in another you have the ability to see abnoral wear from excessive engine speeds. Not that a simple lightend flywheel would give you a problem like that.

If you shift from 2nd to 3rd in a 2g gsx with stock transmition at 7800 rpm you'll be at 5164 rpm after the shift. No big deal on a t-25 becasue you wont be shifting that high, or be near effecny anyways. On a 14b its also no loss. But unless you are using no lift to shift your rpm's will drop below 5164 depending drag and mechanical coeffencys. wich means that on a larg turbo you will have a harder time keeping your turbo spooled.

Basicly. The heavier the fly the more rotating mass will be spinning to keep the rpms from droping under the boost threshold of larger turbos.... It just depends on what your building your car for.. Autocross, drag, street.

Just a thought...Wouldn't the benifits of the lighter flywheel (reving faster) counter the benefits of a heavier one? Considering the heavier takes more time to reach the same rpms would they almost cancel each other out? I don't really have any numbers just thinking, if you have an engine that losses 1k with the stock flywheel between shifts but with the light flywheel you loose say 1800rpms but the engines revs twice as fast. You would make up the lost revs quicker. I know you wouldn't increase your revs that much but wouldn't make sence that the loss in rotating mass would be more benifitial not only because of the faster revs but also the whp?

[scottsee]

I personaly think it would be more benificial to have a lightweight flywheel becasue you will be transfering more energy more effecently with less drag. It's the same thing with ligher weigh pullys, the less weight strain you have on an engine the more gains you will see.

Their comes a point where special circonstances require special conditions. In the case of a well tuned high reving 2.0l with a 50+lb/min turbo using a non-raceing tranny where its not safe to shift past 8500rpms you'll be wanting the full 19lb fly to keep your RPMS up during shifts. Unless of course your are using DSMlink where you can utilize NLTS.

[scottsee]

Its a loose argument, but with 10 year old trannys. Its not a bad thought.

Edit> You wont need any aftermarket springs with FP1 or FP2 type cams. It's only when you get upto the Fp3 will you need 90+lb of seat pressure. Only thing you'll need is new lifters. You 100% have to get new lifters every time your change your cams.

[SLoe]

On the other side of the arguement, a heavier flywheel will have more inertia. You will get a better 60' time if you are drag racing, and IMO you win or lose mostly on the 60'. It's hard to make up for a crappy short time.

[scottsee]

Originally Posted by loeman

On the other side of the arguement, a heavier flywheel will have more inertia. You will get a better 60' time if you are drag racing, and IMO you win or lose mostly on the 60'. It's hard to make up for a crappy short time.

Benifit #2

[crunchymilk55]

I had a debate about heavy vs. light flywheel with a local dsm wiseman buddy, he convinced me, stocker > lightened

[Thor06]

Wow, what an informative thread. Yes his car will be getting DSM link.

How will the 60' times be higher on a stock flywheel as opposed to a lightened one? I would think that the extra power/torque from a lightened flywheel would make everything faster.

scottsee, I didnt know you are so knowledgable, thanks for the input.

[SLoe]

Originally Posted by Thor06

How will the 60' times be higher on a stock flywheel as opposed to a lightened one? I would think that the extra power/torque from a lightened flywheel would make everything faster.

Because of inertia. A heavier rotating mass is harder to stop, so when you dump the clutch you will have more initial torque getting to the ground.