SUV sub Box

[es669862]

Hi guys!!!! any who expirience a good sub box into SUV car, Band pass / Ported or Sealed?

[Jet-Lee]

Umm...... Is the answer 27?

I think your asking what we think would sound best in an SUV.

I would personally go with a dual-vented box with 2 10's. More compact than 2 12's with similar output.

[AndonD454]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

Umm...... Is the answer 27?

I think your asking what we think would sound best in an SUV.

I would personally go with a dual-vented box with 2 10's. More compact than 2 12's with similar output.

huh? im confused by your post.. 2 12s have a pretty big advantage over 2 10s.. and space usually isnt a big issue in SUVs anyways

and to the orig. poster, your wuestion is way too vague to have an answer.. what do you want to know? is it what would sound best in an suv like jet lee suggested? if so then theres no answer.. you need to find out what sound you WANT and then you can figure out the driver size/configuration, and THEN build a box based upon what driver(s) you chose, how much space you have, and yet again, how you want it to sound

[es669862]

Originally Posted by AndonD454

huh? im confused by your post.. 2 12s have a pretty big advantage over 2 10s.. and space usually isnt a big issue in SUVs anyways

and to the orig. poster, your wuestion is way too vague to have an answer.. what do you want to know? like jet lee suggested? if so then theres no answer.. you need to find out what sound you WANT and then you can figure out the driver size/configuration, and THEN build a box based upon what driver(s) you chose, how much space you have, and yet again, how you want it to sound

Thank's to both of guys, I just want to get an idea, Base on your expirience is what would be the best sound or Enclosure for an suv, I have NISSAN PATROL 2doors and want to upgrade the audio system,

[Jet-Lee]

Originally Posted by AndonD454

huh? im confused by your post.. 2 12s have a pretty big advantage over 2 10s.. and space usually isnt a big issue in SUVs anyways

I beg to differ, but I can tell from your post that you wouldn't change your mind if I layed it out in front of you, so I'll just hold my tongue.

Space is usually an issue, with SUV's. That's why people buy them, most often, for the space. They want the space. Why would you go buy an SUV to put all your climbing/spelunking gear in, then cram it full of speaker boxes? You're back at square one, needing more space.

[Mannyb18b]

There is no reason to go with 10's over 12's. period. and too es669862, I can barely make out what your trying to say...best sound or enclosure? IMHO a prop. built 6th order bandpass sounds pretty good in SUV's, or just go ported.

[es669862]

Originally Posted by Mannyb18b

There is no reason to go with 10's over 12's. period. and too es669862, I can barely make out what your trying to say...best sound or enclosure? IMHO a prop. built 6th order bandpass sounds pretty good in SUV's, or just go ported.

many thank's,,,, I'll go for 6th order bandpass or ported

[Jet-Lee]

Originally Posted by Mannyb18b

There is no reason to go with 10's over 12's. period. and too es669862, I can barely make out what your trying to say...best sound or enclosure? IMHO a prop. built 6th order bandpass sounds pretty good in SUV's, or just go ported.

Next you're going to say the same thing about 12's and 15's, then 15's and 18's, then 18's and 22's, right?

PUT THE BIGGEST SPEAKER IN YOU CAR/TRUCK/SUV THAT YOU CAN FIT!!!!!

[IcESouL]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

I beg to differ, but I can tell from your post that you wouldn't change your mind if I layed it out in front of you, so I'll just hold my tongue.

Space is usually an issue, with SUV's. That's why people buy them, most often, for the space. They want the space. Why would you go buy an SUV to put all your climbing/spelunking gear in, then cram it full of speaker boxes? You're back at square one, needing more space.

can you explain why using 2 10"s is better then 2 12"? Besides the space issue. you seem to have some interesting ideas so i'd like to know, if you want pm me with the anwser thanks.

[AndonD454]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

I beg to differ, but I can tell from your post that you wouldn't change your mind if I layed it out in front of you, so I'll just hold my tongue.

Space is usually an issue, with SUV's. That's why people buy them, most often, for the space. They want the space. Why would you go buy an SUV to put all your climbing/spelunking gear in, then cram it full of speaker boxes? You're back at square one, needing more space.

go ahead and lay it out in front of me.. unless you want to argue about what each of us considers to be a "fairly large" increase in cone area between the two.. but thats perspective.. you want the numbers? no problem..

say a 10" driver youre lookign at has 379cm^2 of sd. meaning two of them would have 758cm^2 together. then, a 12" version of the same driver would have about 531cm^2 of sd (two of them = 1062cm^2) . thats a 71% increase in sd, the equivalent of a little over 2db, which is close to having double the output in the real world of sound (yes i know for humans its 10db, but regardless over 2db is, to me, a "fairly large" difference.)

in simpler terms, ill put it this way, its almost the same audible difference between one 12 and 2 12s. also, most 12s are made to handle a little more power (aka more output) than the 10" model of the same sub. and ALSO, by design, larger subs usually have better low frequency extension and a stronger bottom end.

and as far as your point about space, now youre the one that has some convincing to do, because the difference between a box for 2 12s and 2 10s isnt gonna be much.. the difference between 2 cubes of space and 3 cubes is (again, to me) very well worth the extra output. and if 1-2 cubes is gonna prevent you from carrying random shit then you probably wouldnt be the type of person willing to put subs in the cargo area anyways.

so to the thread starter, if you put 16 mountain bikes in your car on a regular basis, and a couple cubic feet of space is gonna stop that from being possible, then subs may not be for you.

BUT of the rest of us with SUVs who dont need to climb mountains and shove our cars full of crap on a regular basis, space isnt a big issue.

[IcESouL]

This is jet-lee's response to me after having it layed out. so he doesnt have to type it all over. Sorry jet if this was only meant for me to see.


"I like 10's because they have similar output as 12's. Sure, 12's move more air for SPL, but the whole "12's play lower than 10's" is bullshit. My 10's play clean down to 30hz, at least(that's as low as my test cd goes). 10's use less space to get the same result. 10's can use the same space as 12's to get REALLY GOOD results(better).

Think of it this way, most companies 10's and 12's are no different. They use the same motor structure for both, but a bigger cone on the 12's, which means less sensitivity.

Let me explain the significance of sensitivity:
87db @ 1W @ 1M means that if you put 1Watt into the speaker(free air) and hold the mic 1 meter (3'3") from the cone, it will play at 87 decibles. Puting the speaker into a box increases this number, depending on the box.

Say you have a 10 and a 12, they both have the same motor structure (magnet, voice coil, spider, etc.). So the motors have the same sensitivity, but the 12 has less because of the motor having to push more material. 10's usually have a sensitivity around 90db, and 12's and 15's about 87db. 15's are the same as 12's because companies give them better motor structures. Now, for every 3db of sound, twice the power is required.

Watts - Decibles

10" Sub 12" Sub

1 - 90................1 - 87
2 - 93................2 - 90
4 - 96................4 - 93
8 - 99................8 - 96
16 - 102............16 - 99
32 - 105............32 - 102
64 - 108............64 - 105
128 - 111..........128 - 108
256 - 114..........256 - 111
512 - 117..........512 - 114
1028 - 120........1028 - 117
........................2048 - 120

Same 120db, but twice the power for the 12's to reach it.

Proper box design can fix that, but what gets done to the 12, can also be done to the 10 and it still gets the upper hand.

Say a 10 requires a factory 1.61ft^3 of space to produce its factory 30hz wave. A 12 would require a factory 1.75ft^3 of space to produce its factory 30hz wave(same motor structure). What happens when you put the 10 from the 1.61ft^3 sealed into the 1.75ft^3 and port it and tune it to 25hz? You get a lower tuning with the same size enclosure than you would have otherwise."

[Jet-Lee]

I prefer to not argue on these forums because people are more bullheaded and some moderators get rather pissy. I already don't have a very good rep, and I'd rather not make that worse. I know a lot more than you think you do.

[AndonD454]

Originally Posted by IcESouL

This is jet-lee's response to me after having it layed out. so he doesnt have to type it all over. Sorry jet if this was only meant for me to see.


"I like 10's because they have similar output as 12's. Sure, 12's move more air for SPL, but the whole "12's play lower than 10's" is bullshit. My 10's play clean down to 30hz, at least(that's as low as my test cd goes). 10's use less space to get the same result. 10's can use the same space as 12's to get REALLY GOOD results(better).

Think of it this way, most companies 10's and 12's are no different. They use the same motor structure for both, but a bigger cone on the 12's, which means less sensitivity.

Let me explain the significance of sensitivity:
87db @ 1W @ 1M means that if you put 1Watt into the speaker(free air) and hold the mic 1 meter (3'3") from the cone, it will play at 87 decibles. Puting the speaker into a box increases this number, depending on the box.

Say you have a 10 and a 12, they both have the same motor structure (magnet, voice coil, spider, etc.). So the motors have the same sensitivity, but the 12 has less because of the motor having to push more material. 10's usually have a sensitivity around 90db, and 12's and 15's about 87db. 15's are the same as 12's because companies give them better motor structures. Now, for every 3db of sound, twice the power is required.

Watts - Decibles

10" Sub 12" Sub

1 - 90................1 - 87
2 - 93................2 - 90
4 - 96................4 - 93
8 - 99................8 - 96
16 - 102............16 - 99
32 - 105............32 - 102
64 - 108............64 - 105
128 - 111..........128 - 108
256 - 114..........256 - 111
512 - 117..........512 - 114
1028 - 120........1028 - 117
........................2048 - 120

Same 120db, but twice the power for the 12's to reach it.

Proper box design can fix that, but what gets done to the 12, can also be done to the 10 and it still gets the upper hand.

Say a 10 requires a factory 1.61ft^3 of space to produce its factory 30hz wave. A 12 would require a factory 1.75ft^3 of space to produce its factory 30hz wave(same motor structure). What happens when you put the 10 from the 1.61ft^3 sealed into the 1.75ft^3 and port it and tune it to 25hz? You get a lower tuning with the same size enclosure than you would have otherwise."

well im not saying i know everything cause i dont at all.. but again a lot youve said here doesnt check out with me.. so if you want to prove my next couple points wrong, then please do.. but i still disagree. im not here to get in an e-fight or anything.. i just still think youre wrong.

First, the whole "12s play lower than tens is bullshit".. they usually do. it seems as a general rule, larger subs of the same make have a lower fs, and tend to have better LFE.. it may not be huge between subs, but in general, bigger subs play deeper notes with more authority. they are better at producing the note and they have more spl at those lower notes too. i dont doubt that youtr 10s can play 30 hz with authority, and thats prolly the lowest anybody listens to anyways, but i would bet money that a 12 of the same make and model would have better LFE.

now, on to sensitivity. i already know what it is, but i disagree with your theory of 3db less sens. for a 12 vs a 10. id liek you to find me several subs that have a lower sensitivity with the 12. i cant think of almost any right now, btu ill give you the benefit of the doubt. until i see otherwise, though, i dont agree at all. more cone area = more sensitivity, regardless of whether they use the same motor or not. hell even companies liek RE that use the same motor for every size in each line show like a 2-3 db INCREASE for each size up. and if a company uses a different motor for the 15 from the 12.. then odds are the 10" motor is different too. what companies use the same motor structure for 10s and 12s but then have a bigger motor for 15s?

i do, however agree with your final point that putting the 10" in the 12" box will increase low end output, thats pretty much a general rule.. that increasing box size produces better lows (to a certain point, then it gets sloppy and isnt worth it, obviously) but like i said before, if he can spare soem extra room, why not put the 12s in an oversized box, have better LFE, and better output too.. for only a few bucks more?