Flywheel and starter problem for a 99camry?

[graycamry1999]

Hello,
I need serious help. First of all, I don't know anything about cars.
I have a 99camry, 51K. I have been taking it since we bought it in Feb 2002 to the toyota dealer for regular maintenance, flushing, water pump replacement, front and rear brakes replacements, timing belts....
We never had any trouble with it (besides the regular wear and tear)
Last October, it started having very random starting problems. It would happen any time of the day, even when it was still warm outside.
It sounds as if the car was running and we tried to turn the key. I don't know if I am clear but it's a squeaky sound. So when that happens, I usually wait a few seconds, try again and then everything is fine. We checked the battery and it was still fine. It makes this strange sound once every 2 weeks. it can go even 3 weeks with no trouble.
Anyway, I took it back to the Toyota dealership and here is what they recommend:
Flywheel and starter malfunctioning: To be replaced
Cost: $1785 ( $830 for parts and the rest for labor). They charge $85/h for labor. This sounded outrages to me so I called a few mechanics in my area. The price went down to $1290 for labor & parts. One mechanic told me:” If the flywheel is malfunctioning, you would have a constant starting problem”. He said that it sounds like the starter is getting old ( by the way we still have the original starter)and that starters cause random trouble that becomes more and more frequent.
When I asked Toyota about the cause of the " malfunction" of the starter and flywheel, they said that it was caused by the fact that we have been turning the key even when the engine was on. I admit that this did happen to me maybe once or twice max when I first started driving 3 years ago. I was in a parking lot waiting for someone and the car was so silent that I thought that it was off. I definitely did not do this frequently.
Here are my questions:
-first of all, is it true that a flywheel problem shows constant symptoms?
-is it true that a flywheel replacement requires about 10 hours of work?
-is it true that starting the car once or twice while the engine is running ( 3 years ago) can cause this mess?
-Last but not least, is my dealership asking for a bit too much?
It's a bit scary to go to any mechanic. At least with the dealership I have peace of mind when it comes to the security but their prices are way too high!!!
Thank you

[Toysrme]

Originally Posted by graycamry1999

Hello,
I need serious help. First of all, I don't know anything about cars.
I have a 99camry, 51K. I have been taking it since we bought it in Feb 2002 to the toyota dealer for regular maintenance, flushing, water pump replacement, front and rear brakes replacements, timing belts....
We never had any trouble with it (besides the regular wear and tear)
Last October, it started having very random starting problems. It would happen any time of the day, even when it was still warm outside.
It sounds as if the car was running and we tried to turn the key. I don't know if I am clear but it's a squeaky sound. So when that happens, I usually wait a few seconds, try again and then everything is fine. We checked the battery and it was still fine. It makes this strange sound once every 2 weeks. it can go even 3 weeks with no trouble.
Anyway, I took it back to the Toyota dealership and here is what they recommend:
Flywheel and starter malfunctioning: To be replaced
Cost: $1785 ( $830 for parts and the rest for labor). They charge $85/h for labor. This sounded outrages to me so I called a few mechanics in my area. The price went down to $1290 for labor & parts. One mechanic told me:” If the flywheel is malfunctioning, you would have a constant starting problem”. He said that it sounds like the starter is getting old ( by the way we still have the original starter)and that starters cause random trouble that becomes more and more frequent.
When I asked Toyota about the cause of the " malfunction" of the starter and flywheel, they said that it was caused by the fact that we have been turning the key even when the engine was on. I admit that this did happen to me maybe once or twice max when I first started driving 3 years ago. I was in a parking lot waiting for someone and the car was so silent that I thought that it was off. I definitely did not do this frequently.
Here are my questions:
-first of all, is it true that a flywheel problem shows constant symptoms?
-is it true that a flywheel replacement requires about 10 hours of work?
-is it true that starting the car once or twice while the engine is running ( 3 years ago) can cause this mess?
-Last but not least, is my dealership asking for a bit too much?
It's a bit scary to go to any mechanic. At least with the dealership I have peace of mind when it comes to the security but their prices are way too high!!!
Thank you

Without hearing the noise it's hard.
Start by replacing the starter. They're easy to change & not expencive. under $100 for a rebuilt aftermarket one at an auto-store.

Otherwise either the starter teeth have been knocked off, or the ring teeth on your flex-plate have been knocked off.
Flex-plate = flywheel on an A/T equipped car.

Used plates are cheap. Toyota only uses two main sizes of flywheel/flex-plates & most swap between engines & transmissions.



To change them, the engine comes out, or the transmission comes down. Normally the transmission comes down.









FYI you can take the cover off the bottom of the engine/transmission to inspect the ring teeth yourself. They're normally only held on by a few 14-12mm bolts.

[graycamry1999]

Thank you for your response.
As for the noise that I hear, it's not a clicking, it does not sound as if the battery is dying. The noise is very similar to the sound of tennis shoes scraping on a hard wood floor.
At toyota, they did confirm that the flywheel had missing teeth.
If I start by changing the starter, could the current flywheel with the missing teeth damage a new starter?

[abrittis]

It's almost surly a problem with the starter. The solinoid that pushes the starter gear into the flywheel is probably sticking every now and then.

Replacing the starter should fix the problem.

Another cause - much less likely - is that you are missing some teeth on the flywheel.

Removing the start is pretty easy on this car. You will need to remove the battery - and if I remember correctly, you may also need to remove the air cleaner as well.

Anthony

[Mike Gerber]

I just replaced the starter on my 98. If it's the 4 cylinder 5SFE engine, to replace the starter you need to remove the battery, then the battery tray and then the 3 bolts that hold down the cruise control unit and push the cruise control out of the way. You can remove the air cleaner for slightly better access, but it is not absolutely necessary. Then you remove the electrical connector and the power lead to the starter and then the 2 bolts that hold the starter itself in. I believe they are 14MM. Then pull the starter itself out. You may have to wiggle it out a bit.

That said, turning the ignition key with the motor already running could damage the teeth on the flywheel. Once or twice may be all it takes. With your limited automotive knowledge, I really recommend that you take the car in to an independent mechanic that you can trust. Have him remove the starter and then inspect the teeth of the flywheel/flexplate a full 360 degrees to check the teeth. If there are bad teeth he can replace the flywheel with one from a salvage yard (most dealers won't use salvaged parts) at a rate a lot cheaper than the dealer rate. He'll also replace the starter just to be safe. If the teeth on the flywheel are still good, then checking this out and replacing the starter with a rebuilt unit should run around $200-$250. If you don't know of an independant mechanic you can trust, ask friends and neighbors for a recommendation.

Good luck with the problem.

Mike

[graycamry1999]

Thank you all for the replies. I appreciate your help.
One of my friends took me to a mechanic today. He worked for over 30 years for Chevrolet. He is currently retired and works from home. He sounded logical and pretty convincing. He showed me a flywheel so now at least I can picture the problem.
He suggested to wait a bit since the problem is still so random. He said that when the problem becomes more frequent, he will start by replacing the starter and with a mirror, he will be able to spin and check the entire flywheel. He is still not 100% convinced that this is due to the flywheel. If it's the case, he said that the part was not expensive ( around 90$ or even less) but added that replacing it could take many hours. Toyota told me that this could take up to 10h of labor. We will see...

[Toysrme]

No LoL!
Replacing a flywheel, or flexplate is about 5-6 hours of labor tho. The transmission get's dropped outta the car.

He wouldn't need a mirror, just get under the car & drop the cover plate & you're starting at about 1/3 of the wheel at a time. Spin the engine & look at another 1/3, spin it again & look at the last bit.

[graycamry1999]

Waw!!!!Only 5 to 6h?? Toyota charges $85/h. That makes a huge difference.
That's good to know. Thank you so much for this useful information.

[abrittis]

95% of the time, this problem is caused by the starter. Which is relativly easy to replace. 45 minutes of labor at most. Once the starter is out, inspecting the flywheel shouldn't take much longer - but I bet it would be ok.

On another note - if the problem does get worse over time - it is almost surely the starter - because that would indicate that the solinoid is sticking - and getting worse.

If the problem doesn't get worse over time - I would give a little more weight to the problem being caused by broken teeth on the flywheel.

Anthony

[graycamry1999]

Thanks Anthony. I decided to wait about another month and see what happens.
This is a great forum. I learned quit a bit