synthetics, synthetics, everywhere

[directory]

so...

i think i want to change over to synthetics. the main questions--how do i do this? is it as easy as removing the oil, then pouring sythetics in (with a full oil change of course). any special porcedures in need to look into? any tips, tricks, opinions?

what's a good syn oil fluid? royal purple? am i using the same wieght as regular oil. and, in a pinch, would oil change places have synthetics for a quick change?

what do i need to know?

i may be adding an oil cooler to the program also....maybe

[todds21]

I am running synthetics in the hope that it will not sludge up as bad. The rodeo motor is real hard on the oil from everything I have seen. Go over to bitog and look around for debates on which oil. The big benefit with synthetic is extended drain capability. I have just finished a double auto-RX and am finishing up the cleanse phase. I plan on running some cheap supertech full synthetic 10w30 and see how it feels. This has been posting some good UOA's over at bitog. I also have a couple jugs of amsoil 10w30 that I really like but not sure how many miles I can keep it in the rodeo. My main objective is keeping the tick away. I have a 97 v6 with 125K on the clock. My rodeo burns some oil so I prob will switch to a heavier grade. Rotella 5w40 or 15w40 looks like it would do well in this motor. I think Ramblin Fever has run this in his rodeo.

[directory]

thanks for the input.

[rodeo02]

No special procedures needed. Just drain and refill with the synthetic oil of your choice that meets the specs for your vehicle. Keep in mind the only real 100% synthetics are mobil-1, amsoil, redline and royal purple racing series (there may be more mail-order 'boutique' oils in there as well ). The rest are more or less highly refined conventional oils, or just contain a small percentage of synthetic oil (synth blends). Not a bad thing, it's just that those usually cost as much as M1, etc, so why not pay for the real stuff. The real ones are synthesized from natural gas & completely man-made. I'm no lube expert, but in my opinion, unless you plan on going beyond 7500mi on the oil, live in the arctic, or the extreme tropics, or your vehicle specs synthetics must be used, you are totally wasting your money. The whole point to synthetics is they will pump in the extreme cold, they will hold up better in extreme heat, and they allow you to extend your drain interval. If you are not going to use any of these benefits, it is completely pointless to run synthetics, they don't do anything magical for you over a good conventional oil. I don't know that any 3.2L is hard on oil. They burn or leak it. I've never seen or heard of a sludged 3.2L. Most look clean under the valve covers or in the oil pan.

G/luck
Joel

[Ramblin Fever]

Yeap! I ran a few rounds of rotella synthetic 5w-40 thru last summer, LOVED it, didn't have any issues, oil pressure was great, and the truck idled smooth.

I currently have 153k, and I ran Rotella from 139k to 147k, two rounds of 3k miles and some change - I started using it to get rid of the faint tick that developed at 139k.

It worked as far as I can tell - no more ticking.

The rotella is a diesel/gasoline rated oil with a higher detergent level then regular gasoline engine oil.

I switched back to a lighter oil for winter, 5w-30 Havoline blend, I was due for a change and couldn't find the Rotella for a few weeks.

Couldn't say whether or not the 3.2L is prone to sludge, and mine doesn't use more then 1/8 qt in 3k miles; I didn't go to a heavier weight because of useage, but because it (the Rotella) contained more detergents and I do a LOT of heavy mountain driving.

I don't know yet, for sure, if I'll run the rotella 5w-40 this summer, or switch to the 10w-30 Havoline blend.

I want to run a used oil analysis on the Havoline blend that I now have almost 3k on to get an inside view on whether or not the truck likes this oil.

I had used Havoline regular 10w-30 oil for the first 139k on this truck, with no issues at 3k mile oil/filter changes.

FWIW - I will stick to either 5w-40 or 10w-30 for summer use, and definitely switch back to the 5w-30 Havoline blend next winter.

In my opinion, from what I've experienced, I don't see the need for a true synthetic, i.e. Mobil 1, etc unless you are going to extend your oil changes past 5-6k, which is not advisable on these 3.2L engines, they like real clean oil.

Even with the Rotella synthetic (not a true synthetic BTW), I'll only extend it out to 4-4,500 miles. Same with the Havoline blend.

[rodeo02]

Ramblin- I think you are on to something with the synthetic blends. IMO- they are the best of both worlds; Inexpensive and good quality. You can easily run them out to 5-6Kmi and still keep a warm and fuzzy feeling. I've been hooked on the conoco-phillips blends (kendall, trop-arctic, motorcraft, etc are all the same) for my rodeo. They can usually be had for less than $2/qt & supposedly its great stuff. I personally would not waste money on a UOA for a passenger vehicle, unless you are just trying to find an internal coolant leak. Too many variables. Fuels, oils, ambient temps, driving conditions, etc constantly change. There is NO WAY to draw consistant data from that. UOA are perfect for OTR trucks and commercial/industrial equipment with huge ($$$$) lube oil systems. My employer trends oil sample data from the compressors at our plants. Some of these have 1000 gallon++ sumps at $600 per 55gal drum. They run 24/7 sometimes for years straight. The conditions they run in rarely change so the data remains useful.

Joel

[Ramblin Fever]

Rodeo02 - it was merely by pure luck how I ended up with the Havoline blend, I would'nt have thought of it actually, as I was bouncing back and forth between Havoline regular and Rotella.

My mechanic was doing a free oil/filter change the month it went into his shop, and he knew I'd always used havoline, so he just threw in the blend.

I'm liking it, the truck is really quiet with it as well. With the regular 5w-30 Havoline it was kind of noisey.

Truth be told, the ONLY real reason I'm interested in a UOA is to check for any antifreeze. I'm sure you've read somewhere, either here, 4x4wire, or BTOG's site that my Toyota p-up blew it's headgasket, again. By our good luck this time, we caught it early.

The rodeo is at 153k now, and we've agreed to do UOA once every 6 mnths just for precaution really. The Toyota will get them every 3 mnths from here on out.

[Ramblin Fever]

Wanted to add, that in my personal opinion, of course, I believe vehicles are more prone to gasket leaks with synthetics.

And I haven't seen any better wear numbers with say Mobil 1 versus regular oil via numerous UOA reports on many different vehicles/engines.

The way I look at, I can spend a few more times each year under the engine of my vehicles to check for leaks and change the oil, and catch things like leaky headgasket's in advance, rather then spend $$$ money on synthetic and extend the OCI out possibly missing some very important preventative maintenance.

[mapua82]

I use the Valvoline Synpower, got a decent TBN number next to AMSOIL.

[directory]

Originally Posted by rodeo02

No special procedures needed. Just drain and refill with the synthetic oil of your choice that meets the specs for your vehicle. Keep in mind the only real 100% synthetics are mobil-1, amsoil, redline and royal purple racing series (there may be more mail-order 'boutique' oils in there as well ). The rest are more or less highly refined conventional oils, or just contain a small percentage of synthetic oil (synth blends). Not a bad thing, it's just that those usually cost as much as M1, etc, so why not pay for the real stuff. The real ones are synthesized from natural gas & completely man-made. I'm no lube expert, but in my opinion, unless you plan on going beyond 7500mi on the oil, live in the arctic, or the extreme tropics, or your vehicle specs synthetics must be used, you are totally wasting your money. The whole point to synthetics is they will pump in the extreme cold, they will hold up better in extreme heat, and they allow you to extend your drain interval. If you are not going to use any of these benefits, it is completely pointless to run synthetics, they don't do anything magical for you over a good conventional oil. I don't know that any 3.2L is hard on oil. They burn or leak it. I've never seen or heard of a sludged 3.2L. Most look clean under the valve covers or in the oil pan.

G/luck
Joel

thank you for your input..i didn't think of it that way. i just was always under the umbrella of "synth's are the way to go--to better your engine"

thanks!

[Ramblin Fever]

I think a lot of people initially thought of it that way - "to better your engine"

But, unless you are drag racing, live in the artic, or going to extend your OCI out to 7k or more, I think it's money not well spent.

[todds21]

Is the consensus here that synthetics do not run cleaner than dino? If the tick is believed to be caused by dirty oil passages wouldn't it be of benefit to run a cleaner oil? It would be interesting to see what response this thread recieves over on bitog where lubrication is discussed all day long.

[marcre]

Thing I learned while frequenting BITOG the last several months (I check it daily) is most people there are enthusiasts, not experts. No disrespect meant to anyone, but that is my opinion.

I think synthetics are great, but don't make sense in a vehicle (my rodeo) that burns oil. I would put it into a newer, lower mileage vehicle. Regular oil has worked for all these years for many, so it must be good.

[Ramblin Fever]

I don't believe the whole "ticking is caused by hydraulic lifter's being clogged" theory. I'm sorry, but I don't.

I know and have met several Isuzu owners through the years, since back to my first Rodeo - the '91, that have been avid, if not chronic every 3k oil/filter changers, and they've still developed the tick.

Heck, I even developed the tick for a short time, and I know I've changed my oil every 2-3k, using Havoline for the whole duration.

Not only that, but there are also people that have posted on the wire that have been using Mobil 1 from the start, and still have the tick - so I don't believe it's truly due to clogged lifters.

If that's the case, then why are these engine flushes that so many Isuzu owners using not working?

I have to agree with Marcre, I actually believe more people over there put more thought into their oil then what is truly necessary.

I fell into that theory for a while, I won't lie, believing that the Havoline oil I've always used wasn't good enough for the punch - however, after visiting there for several months, Havoline has better wear numbers then most synthetics bragged on that board.

I do believe synthetics run cleaner longer then most regular oils, however, the only benefit to that is running them past 7k miles. As long as frequent oil changes have been maintained, any engine will last a LONG time.

I ran a 3/4 ton chevy to well over 350k miles on regular Havoline, never once opened the engine.

I truly believe people will always experience more problems with rust, tranny issues, cooling issues, then they will with oil issues - unless of course they let it run low.

I have to admit, even if I had a brand-new vehicle, I'd still run Havoline regular or blend in it. It's been a long time used oil in my family on many, many different makes and models, not one of us has had an issue.

I can pick up a qt of Havoline blend for $1.75 versus $4 for say German Castrol.

I have a thing against Mobil 1, I will never use that oil. And Amsoil really does not thrill me, I don't like their whole marketing attitude.

But I did like the history the green German Castrol oil created with very good numbers, however it gave my truck horrible sounds .

[Gizmo42]

Originally Posted by Ramblin Fever

I don't believe the whole "ticking is caused by hydraulic lifter's being clogged" theory. I'm sorry, but I don't.

The ticking hydraulic adjusters can be at least in part attributed to clogging. Mitsubishi has the same thing (ever hear a mitsu that didnt tick? Its the reason my parents bought another toyota instead of a diamonte when I bought my truck) and I know that taking them out and cleaning out the oil hole significantly reduces if not eliminates the ticking, until it gets dirty again. They came out with a new design with larger holes and that helped alot with the ticking noise. They still get clogged or restricted after a while and tick.

Pretty much its just the nature of the beast. If you have an engine with hydraulic lash adjusters then get used to ticking. After a while I actually liked it because if it got too loud or didnt quiet down after a few seconds I knew I was a quart low on oil. Didnt have to bother with checking the oil anymore

I'll stick with the bucket and shim design my 2nd gen has. No ticking and no adjusting.