Is the EVO IX one of the most tunnable cars ever?

[3000ways]

*This is a long read and contains much data, if do not have the paitence to read such a long post, then please do not contribute to this discussion. Also if you do not have the knowledge or research to factually dispute claims, then do not contribute. I've grown tired of these interent debates with people who are unwilling to put as much time and research into a discussion as I have*

The 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Turbo, what an awesome piece of machinery. A legendary car, but very expensive, is it worth it? Is it truly worth $100,000+? Well factor in the styling, the beautiful interior, the top notch quality of build, and the image status of driving a Porsche, then in my opinion it is worth it. Also factor in it's supercar performance and you see why such a car demands such a high price tag. Still while almost any car will have a hard time matching the other enduring qualities of a Porsche, the performance levels the car achieves stock is not untouchable. A Greddy Twin Turbo 350Z, a BPU+ Twin Turbo Supra, or a Stage 3 and bolt ons SRT-4 all have the potential to claim a kill on the 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Turbo.

2000-2004 Porsche 911 Turbo
3.6L Twin Turbochared 6-Cylinder
415HP 415TQ
6-Speed Manual AWD
3400-3500Lbs
1/4 Mile- 11.8-12.2 Seconds
1/4 Mile Speed- 115-118MPH

As you can see by the above specs, the 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Turbo is not an easy kill. For a new car that costs around $35,000 or less, it would involve a substantial investiment in funds to reach the level (straightline performance) of the 911 Turbo. Enter the 2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX. The IX is turning out to be one of the most tunnable cars EVER! It is making such tremendous gains in power with the simplest bolt-on products, that for $2,000 or less, it can be a legitimate 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Turbo killer. The numbers on a stock IX while impressive, are no where near 911 Turbo killer category.

2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX
2.0L Turbocharged 4-Cylinder
286HP 289TQ
5 or 6 Speed Manual AWD
3200-3330Lbs
1/4 Mile- 12.8-13.2 Seconds
1/4 Mile Speed- 103-106MPH

While it is unfair to compare a modified car to a stock one, the biggest point is not really about the fact that a modified EVO can beat a stock 911 Turbo, we all know this is very possible, and not that difficult for many EVO VIII owners with modifications such as Cams and Flash. The point is just how little has to be invested for an EVO IX to run with or beat a 911 Turbo. Now enter in the modifications.

Mods-
Flash- $500 to $750
Turboback Exhaust with Test Pipe/Cat Delete Pipe- $900 to $1,100
Intake- $250 to $350
Manual Boost Controller @23 PSI- $75 to $125

2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX (with above modifications)
2.0L Turbocharged 4-Cylinder
Estimated 420-430HP Estimated 420-430TQ
5 or 6 Speed Manual AWD
3200-3300Lbs
Estimated 1/4 Mile- 11.9-12.3 Seconds
Estimated 1/4 Mile Speed- 114-117MPH

As you can see, the 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Turbo is obviously underrated, these cars (911s) usually make around 360WHP to 380WHP on most Dyno Jets. The 2006 EVO IX with the above listed mods, are making anywhere from 340WHP to 360WHP on most Dyno Jets, some are making more. Hey don't shoot the messenger, these are the numbers pouring in. Most recent IX made 312WHP with just a Catback and Flash on pump gas. Before that a IX made 285WHP on a DD with just Catback, Downpipe, and Flash, which is approx. 325-330WHP on most Dyno Jets.

This is why the EVO IX and EVOs period are such amazing cars. Not everybody has to the money to spend on modifications to reach certain performance levels equal to that of a $100,000+ car. Not many cars that cost brand new $35,000 have the abilities to reach such performance levels with such little money invested. Only one other car that at the time cost no more than $35,000 can reach these or surpass these levels of straight line performance with such little investiment in money. The car I am thinking of is the 2003-2004 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra. This is understandable, the Cobra comes equipped with a 4.6L Supercharged 8-Cylinder. The EVO IX comes equipped with only a 2.0L Turbocharged 4-Cylinder and the fact that it is able to make such gains is truly amazing.

For example take a 2006 Honda S2000
2.2L 4-Cylinder
237HP 162TQ
6-Speed Manual RWD
2800-2900Lbs
1/4 Mile- 13.8-14.2 Seconds
1/4 Mile Speed- 99-102MPH

Mods-
Catback Exhaust- $600 to $1,200
Cold Air Intake- $200 to $300
Header- $600 to $1,200
4.57 Gears- $600

As you can see the highest price, if you bought only the best for your S2000 would put you well over $3,000 and if you went as cheap as possible, you could squeeze the cost to around $2,000, but the performance gains may be less.

2006 Honda S2000 (with above modifications)
2.2L 4-Cylinder
Estimated 250-260HP Estimated 175-185TQ
6 Speed Manual RWD
2800-2900Lbs
Estimated 1/4 Mile- 13.1-13.5 Seconds
Estimated 1/4 Mile Speed- 102-105MPH

HP gains may be minimal, but the biggest performance gains are being achieved from the 4.57 Gears. Even with the Gears this car is no where near a 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Turbo and would have trouble pulling on a stock 2006 EVO IX.

Not fair you say, to compare a NA vehicle to a FI vehicle, of course gains will be less for the NA vehicle. Understandable, so lets compare FI to FI. Car in question is now the 2006 Dodge Neon SRT-4.

2006 Dodge Neon SRT-4
2.4L Turbocharged 4-Cylinder
230HP 250TQ (underrated)
5-Speed Manual FWD
2900-3000Lbs
1/4 Mile- 13.7-14.1 Seconds
1/4 Mile Speed- 100-103MPH

Mods-
Mopar Stage 2- $1,600
Catback Exhaust- $400

2006 Dodge Neon SRT-4 (with above modifications)
2.4L Turbocharged 4-Cylinder
Estimated 340-350HP Estimated 360-370TQ
5-Speed Manual FWD
2900-3000Lbs
Estimated 1/4 Mile- 13.0-13.4 Seconds
Estimated 1/4 Mile Speed- 106-109MPH

As you can see again a significant improvement for only $2,000, but still not enough to touch a 2000-2004 Porsche 911 Turbo.

Even an STI can not match the gains of an EVO IX with such little money invested.

2006 Subaru Impreza WRX STI
2.4L Turbocharged 4-Cylinder
300HP 300TQ
6-Speed Manual AWD
3300Lbs
1/4 Mile- 12.9-13.3 Seconds
1/4 Mile Speed- 100-103MPH

Mods-
Cobb Stage 2 $1,775
Cold Air Intake- $200-$300

2006 Subaru Impreza WRX STI (with above modifications)
2.4L Turbocharged 4-Cylinder
Estimated 340-350HP Estimated 370-380TQ
6-Speed Manual AWD
3300Lbs
Estimated 1/4 Mile- 12.6-13.0 Seconds
Estimated 1/4 Mile Speed- 105-108MPH

Of course just like all the cars I have so far listed, there are many different routes you can take to modify your car for under or around $2,000 but with such limited amount of money invested you would be very hard pressed to trap 110MPH in an STI.

Now I ask you, besides the 2006 EVO IX and 2003-2004 SVT Cobra, how many other cars that when brand new costed $35,000 and under have the potential to trap over 115MPH with as little as $2,000 invested? I am sure that there are others that I cannot think of. The point is, the EVO IX is truely a masterpiece of engineering.

[clawhammer]

In your comparison you're only talking about straight line acceleration. You should also mention handling. The Evo IX has excellent handling, while a SVT Cobra doesn't.

[drunken monkey]

not to mention that it's limited to a 1/4 mile of straight line, an important note seeing that an out of box carrera can do 186mph with little fuss.

have you looked into how much the gearing plays in the 1/4 mile speed traps?
how about the wheel/tyres involved?
the respective traction systems in each car?

sure, with very little money you can make the evo competitive against a 911 in a rather limited environment but this is nothing new and not limited to the evo IX, especially when you take into consideration what the ralliart team did with the VFQ400.

[DinanM3_S2]

I'm curious how the an evolution, modified as you suggested would do in higher end speeds. Is the evo capable of breaching 200mph as the 911 has been shown to be capable of?

You also assume that the Evo is tuned for performance, while the 911 Turbo is stock, which is inherantly prone to problems. It can't be too difficult to chip the 911 Turbo, which should get gains pretty close to, if not more then what the Evo gets. Realistically, Porsche did not make the 911 Turbo as powerful as it could have been. It needed to be a good road car as well as high performance car, something the Evo can't claim about itself.

Another problem with the Evo is that the rest of the car isn't as good as the engine. I have heard alot about problems with the transmissions on the Evos, and the burden of even more power would probably shorten the lifespan of the Evo's tranny even more. So while you would be as fast as a 911 Turbo for a while, the car isn't designed to handle 400+ horsepower.

Nonetheless, if you are looking for a car to modify, it is tough to beat the Evo for the money. I can honestly not think of a new car that can be as fast for less then $35,000.

[drunken monkey]

...which also leads to the question of whether it is easy to do so for little money because of the car (and the engine), or simply because of the market for it as per what-ever law of economics?

[JLad10687]

I'm confused about what you're actually asking. With 35G, you could make anything fast. But thats if you had 35G to spend. If you only had 2G of cash and someone said theyd but you a car, for under 35,000...I'd probably choose the EVO(if it had to be new), because you will get the most for that 2G.

But why are you doing the comparison on the Porsche 911 instead of other supercars? Just out of curiousity?

[Chad82]

Its a fairly tunable car, but there are many that leave it in the dust. Give someone 35k and a 5.0 mustang and see where they can go.

[clawhammer]

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

I'm curious how the an evolution, modified as you suggested would do in higher end speeds. Is the evo capable of breaching 200mph as the 911 has been shown to be capable of?

Another problem with the Evo is that the rest of the car isn't as good as the engine. I have heard alot about problems with the transmissions on the Evos, and the burden of even more power would probably shorten the lifespan of the Evo's tranny even more. So while you would be as fast as a 911 Turbo for a while, the car isn't designed to handle 400+ horsepower.

Probably not. I don't think that the Evo's can do much over 160, simply because of the gearing. If the porshe had shorter gears, it could go probably quite a bit faster in the 1/4.

I'm sure that for a few grand you could beef up the tranny on the Evo.

[christophv]

to add to Dinan's comment:

Do you think porsche's engineers are somewhat incompetent to build their car as cheap and powerful as the EVO is?

Why do racing teams in JGTC/GT300, Le Mans etc rely on the Porsche 911? Just because it's the brand with the better image? Or because they have too much money?

Don't just be dazzled by numbers.

[fairladyz_gt-r]

Originally Posted by christophv

to add to Dinan's comment:

Do you think porsche's engineers are somewhat incompetent to build their car as cheap and powerful as the EVO is?

Why do racing teams in JGTC/GT300, Le Mans etc rely on the Porsche 911? Just because it's the brand with the better image? Or because they have too much money?

Don't just be dazzled by numbers.

I have no idea about Le mans...but as of JGTC300....don't u think porsche actually gave them those car - -" do u know how much publicity can be gain from racing?

plus Japan is a very very big market for porsche....after all Japanese are crazy about brand name and everything european, they don't want this market to be over run by Japanese sport car do they?

[kman10587]

The 911 is simply the better car in all non-tunable aspects. For at least twice the price of the Evolution, it damn well better be. So, while it's probable that you can see more gains for less money from the Evolution, and in circumstances, the Evolution will be faster than the 911, is just the better sports car.

[3000ways]

I think you guys are missing my point, which I can understand since my post was very long. This is not a comparison between a Porsche 911 Turbo and EVO, I used the 911 Turbo as only an example. I am also not talking about dropping $35,000 into a car, maybe some of you got that mixed up, I was talking about brand new cars costing $35,000 or less being modified and tuned with $2,000 and less. My point was to show just how tuneable the EVO IX is. For $2,000 worth of mods you will not get a Mustang 5.0 to trap 115mph in the 1/4 Mile (without NOS). Yes I am only sticking to straightline, because I can go on and on about everything else but my post would turn into a novel. I am purely using this next car as an example, it's not meant to compair the two, so don't take it that way. The 2006 Corvette Z06 is a very bad ass car, it traps 125MPH stock. How much money do you think it would take for a car such as the S2000 or 350Z, or even a BMW M3 to touch this car. What if I told you could do it for between $5,000 to $6,000 in an EVO IX-

http://forums.evolutionm.net/attachm...chmentid=82028

Mods to achieve similiar numbers-
Turboback Exhaust with Test Pipe ($900-$1,000)
HKS Exhaust Cam ($300)
Front Mount Intercooler ($700)
Intake ($250-$300)
Manual Boost Controller@26PSI ($80-$100)
Injectors ($300-$400)
Fuel Pump ($100-$120)
Blow Off Valve ($200-$300)
Custom Flash ($400-$600)
Alcohol Kit ($400-$500)
2.3L Stroker Kit ($1,900-$2,200)

[9ball]

Of course, I see your point, and it comes back around to the old impossible arguement over modified cars vs. stock cars. Yes, you can soak 5k into an Evo and hang with a 75k car, that's not news to anybody. If you want to take it to an extreme you almost always end up with a small block V8. You see guys at the dragstrip with cars that cost less than a thousand bucks running a highly modified sbc and run 10's and 11's with trap speeds running close to 140. That doesn't mean it's a good car, it's just fast.

I don't see any one car being more "tuneable" than any other with the exception of the ease with which turbocharged cars are tuned. Evo's are very tuneable, but no different than the dsm's of the 90's, or the Scooby turbos, or a 911 turbo. Send a 911 to RUF and see how tuneable it is. I fully understand the point you made in your opening post, but it's a moot point that's been beaten to death on every automotive forum. Yes, it's much much cheaper to get power from modifications than from the factory, but the expensive cars are not only nicer in every way, but also under warranty which you'll forego once you do too much to the cheaper car.

[kman10587]

Yes, it's much much cheaper to get power from modifications than from the factory, but the expensive cars are not only nicer in every way, but also under warranty which you'll forego once you do too much to the cheaper car.

And it's not only that...while it's relatively easy to increase your quarter mile time through modifications, handling is much more complex. No matter how high-tech your suspension, wheels, and tires are, nothing can make up for a superbly designed platform and chassis. And while the Evolution's chassis is excellent for its price range, it's not even on the same level of engineering as the 911. So, bottom line: while a lot of the premium you pay on the 911 is for the luxury and prestige (as is the case with most German brands here in America), there's still a considerable amount more work that goes into the development and tuning of the 911 than the Evolution. And when you're a multi-million dollar racing team, you're going to want only the best. That's why you don't see a whole lot of Evolutions (or Supras, or RX-7s, for that matter) outside of Tsukuba, Suzuka, and Motegi. Japanese sports cars are without a doubt the best on Earth, but they have their place, too.

[9ball]

Originally Posted by kman10587

Japanese sports cars are without a doubt the best on Earth, but they have their place, too.

Hmmmm, you might spark a few arguements there, but I get your point. I'm in the military and just left Japan and I really, really miss my R32 Skyline Gts-t, but in all honesty it felt about like a Mustang Cobra. GTR is a different bird, but us little enlisted guys can't afford something like that. But that does bolster the point further. My Skyline cost me just over a grand. It had a straight-through exhaust, electronic boost controller, Apexi intake so at about 1bar (14.7lbs) I was making a shade over 300hp. Does that mean it's better than a 5yr old 911 making 285hp or whatever it was? Hell no.