timing belt replacement

[carpenter_jai]

Anybody changed thier timing belt? What skill level is required, and what tools are needed? My friend said I would need a timing gun, is that right?

Jai

[Crvett69]

you will need a socket set with a 10mm and 12 and 14mm socket and at least a 10mm wrench. timing light will be needed once you replace old belt to reset timing. it would be best to buy a book on metros and read instructions through. it will also have the pics to show you how to line belt up. i would say it was about a 6 out of 10 on difficulty level. if you have instructions and basic skills you should be able to do it

[carpenter_jai]

I have the Haynes manual, and the sockets, wrench and breaker bar. Hopefully I have the skills.

Thanks for the tips Crvett69.

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

Item to note,
do not take off the big bolt to remove the crank pulley, you will need an 8mm socket to take off the ring of bolts around it.

[Crvett69]

they could be 10mm bolts, depends on the year, will be 4 or 5 of them

[carpenter_jai]

I'm replacing the cam and crank seals at the same time, as I suspect one of these are leaking, which f*#cked up my timing belt in the first place. I need to remove the crank pulley and water pump pulleys to do this won't I? Are you saying that all 4 o 5 of the 8 or 10 mm bolt need to come odd to do this? It's not quite clear. The Hayne's manual says to remove the big centre bolt. Oh well, I'm sure I'll figure it out tomorrow. Hope the sun comes out... At least it's a non-interferance engine, otherwise, this would be a long project!

[Crvett69]

you have to remove water pump pulley to get the cover off. also the lower pulley has to come off. if your not gonna replace crank seal just pull the 4 or 5 small bolts. if your going to replace lower seal also remove 17mm center bolt but you can't pull the gear off till you remove the belt

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

The 4 or 5 bolts will release the crank pulley so you can get the timing belt cover off. The large bolt will give you access to the crank seal. It is a good idea to replace it as you can loose an astounding amount of oil from that seal.

[carpenter_jai]

Well, I was able to do most of what I intended. I replaced the cam seal and timing belt, and cleaned about a pound of oil, deposits and other crap that leaked out with the oil, but two of us working on the crank bolt couldn't get it off with a breaker bar, so we gave up on that seal. We put everything back together again, being sure to line up all the notches, dowels and marks, but the engine wouldn't turn over at all. The timing belt had seperated and jumped about three cogs, so I know that was the problem. We thought that the cylinders may still be flooded, so I took out the spark plugs and have left it untill tomorrow. Here's my question. One guy thinks that the flooding of the engine has caused the seals to lose their tight fit, and therefore it can't get enough compresion to turn over. My other friend thinks I should loosen the distributer and rotate it until I find the right timing point. I have to admit that I did the job today without the benefit of a timing light. The plan was to get it close, and take it to the garage down the road and have them do the fine tuning. Anyway, who's right? Any other ideas?

[Crvett69]

i find bracing a break bar against the frame and bumping engine over with starter will usually break the bolt loose

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

Originally Posted by carpenter_jai

Well, I was able to do most of what I intended. I replaced the cam seal and timing belt, and cleaned about a pound of oil, deposits and other crap that leaked out with the oil, but two of us working on the crank bolt couldn't get it off with a breaker bar, so we gave up on that seal. We put everything back together again, being sure to line up all the notches, dowels and marks, but the engine wouldn't turn over at all. The timing belt had seperated and jumped about three cogs, so I know that was the problem. We thought that the cylinders may still be flooded, so I took out the spark plugs and have left it untill tomorrow. Here's my question. One guy thinks that the flooding of the engine has caused the seals to lose their tight fit, and therefore it can't get enough compresion to turn over. My other friend thinks I should loosen the distributer and rotate it until I find the right timing point. I have to admit that I did the job today without the benefit of a timing light. The plan was to get it close, and take it to the garage down the road and have them do the fine tuning. Anyway, who's right? Any other ideas?

Two things here,
#1 if you were leaking oil from one of those seals it will most likely be the crank seal. I would check the compression before I pulled the timing assembly apart again just in case it's too low and engine replacement makes more sense. I was loosing enough oil from the crank seal to go through a quart every couple of days and there is already soo little oil in these engines you can do damage in very short order.

#2 same thing happened to me when I swapped in a JDM motor (after losing compression in #3 after the oil starvation issue due to the bad seal). I don't know if the timing mark was off or if they weren't lined up, but I had to play it by ear and started advancing the timing until it started. I then advanced it further until the gas mileage and power were close to normal. Where it's set right now, I am almost as advanced as the distributor will go, but it runs good and the mileage is only a little off. When I have a little more time and another vehicle available I may play with it some more.

[carpenter_jai]

Well, I hope you're wrong about the seals. I was not able to remove the crank gear to get at the crank seal, so it remains in place with my fingers crossed. The can seal was cracked, so I'm hoping with this one.

As for the problem, well after digging through old posts on this forum, I got my answer. There are two timing marks on the cam gear. For all of you who are doing a timing job, if you have 60a and 80c on this gear, use 80 for your timing point. It just barely holds in that position too. I put it on 80, put it all back together, and it turned over so quickly, I thought it was going to jump of the jack. I didn't race, it just only required a fraction of a second of starter to get it going. Could that be a result of having rotated the pistons a few times while lining up the gears?