Need new struts, and some answers!

[NeonKnight]

Well my driver side rear shock is leaking, and the others are not as good as they used to be. i also get a clunking sound from the back of the car, which is comming from that messed up shock.... now it doesnt do it at high speeds, or when im hitting the brakes. but when i start to get around 20 mph it clunks. i really hate it.

Also i am thinking of getting some KYB GR2 struts, i can get them for $32 a piece over here in cali. i know the rear are Strut cartridges, but the fronts i am not sure of. i know there is a special tool for the rear to use to get the cartridge out.

here is my main question though! Do i need to get strut mounts? if so why, and how can i determine that i need these? they are about $20 a piece. i have a mechanic friend who will put them in for me, but i need to know what parts i will need. Richtazz i know your the parts man

1991 Lumina Euro Vin T Last 8 of my vin are "M9251748"

so if anyone can help me out here i would love it!

[maxwedge]

The fronts are drop in cartridges, special tool needed to unscrew the retaining. cap. The rear are full struts and can be tough to replace beacuse of the transverse spring and the issue of retaining and reinstalling the auxiliary spring. Strut mounts for the rear are almost a must as they are usually frozen the the strut piston.

[NeonKnight]

so i need to get the front cartridges, no need for the tool, the dealership has it... and the rear are just the normal full struts. cool. so im thinking of going with the KYB GR2 i really dont need the handling but it is nice, i would love to have the smooth ride, so i might just go with delco, or monroe... or something of that sort.

why is it a pain for the rear, i know you have to compress the spring but what makes it hard to get them back in? do you not just compress the aux spring and unmount it then pull it out while car is supported off the ground? i know that before putting in the strut it has to be compressed or something of that sort. Info helps me out

[popof10]

Originally Posted by NeonKnight

so i need to get the front cartridges, no need for the tool, the dealership has it... and the rear are just the normal full struts. cool. so im thinking of going with the KYB GR2 i really dont need the handling but it is nice, i would love to have the smooth ride, so i might just go with delco, or monroe... or something of that sort.

why is it a pain for the rear, i know you have to compress the spring but what makes it hard to get them back in? do you not just compress the aux spring and unmount it then pull it out while car is supported off the ground? i know that before putting in the strut it has to be compressed or something of that sort. Info helps me out

Speaking of the special tool, I bought special GM strut tool kit, which includes a long cylinder with a half-inch drive hole on one end, and on the other end it interlocks with a shorter, wider cylindrical thing with nubs on both ends, and a #50 torx bit.

The first step in the removal process as stated by alldatadiy.com (after removing the metal lid) is to use the torx bit to immobilize the strut shaft while simultaneously
twisting off the hex nut that surrounds the torx nut using a special socket. It would appear that nothing in this GM strut tool kit I bought is capable of doing the twisting off the nut part (though the torx bit does fit where it is supposed to). Anyone know where I can get that special socket for the hex nut? alldatadiy.com gives the tool number as J-35669... Thanks!

I guess I can get one at a dealer, but is there anywhere else I can get this thing for a reasonable price?

I am actually pretty surprised, and not pleasantly so, that this GM strut tool kit did not have everything I need to do the job.

[maxwedge]

Originally Posted by popof10

Speaking of the special tool, I bought special GM strut tool kit, which includes a long cylinder with a half-inch drive hole on one end, and on the other end it interlocks with a shorter, wider cylindrical thing with nubs on both ends, and a #50 torx bit.

The first step in the removal process as stated by alldatadiy.com (after removing the metal lid) is to use the torx bit to immobilize the strut shaft while simultaneously
twisting off the hex nut that surrounds the torx nut using a special socket. It would appear that nothing in this GM strut tool kit I bought is capable of doing the twisting off the nut part (though the torx bit does fit where it is supposed to). Anyone know where I can get that special socket for the hex nut? alldatadiy.com gives the tool number as J-35669... Thanks!

I guess I can get one at a dealer, but is there anywhere else I can get this thing for a reasonable price?

I am actually pretty surprised, and not pleasantly so, that this GM strut tool kit did not have everything I need to do the job.

I used an offset 15/16 box wrench on the large nut.

[Jonn]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

I used an offset 15/16 box wrench on the large nut.

the rear struts i bought for the back of mine came with a bolt that drops down thru one hole and threads down into another beside that rubber "figure 8" spring to hold it in place while you replace the strut, then you disgard that bolt when done. I used it and had no trouble replacing them, the Monroes i bought did NOT come with a new rubber top "bumper", and mine were crap, so i ordered KYB bellows kit that seals the top of the strut against dirt, and has a built in rubber bumper (cushon)

[maxwedge]

Originally Posted by Jonn

the rear struts i bought for the back of mine came with a bolt that drops down thru one hole and threads down into another beside that rubber "figure 8" spring to hold it in place while you replace the strut, then you disgard that bolt when done. I used it and had no trouble replacing them, the Monroes i bought did NOT come with a new rubber top "bumper", and mine were crap, so i ordered KYB bellows kit that seals the top of the strut against dirt, and has a built in rubber bumper (cushon)

I used the bolt also but still had problems lining the retainer up with the knuckle, the bolt should be removed though.

[popof10]

OK -- did my front struts on my 93 Lumina sedan 3.1L last night, and the half-hour job only took me about 3 hours. I started out on the passenger side. Removed the strut covers, and used 15/16 wrench to remove the strut bolt while I held the shaft still with the torx bit. Worked fine. Removed the two rubber bushings, then used my special GM strut tool to remove the strut cartridge cover. That also worked fine.

Pulled the old strut cartridge out, and it was pretty shot. The shaft would go up and down with very little resistance. There was a pool of oil in the bottom of the strut container. Swabbed out all of the oil, released the locked shaft on the new strut, and put the new strut down into the well. Got out my handy-dandy strut tool to install the threaded metal strut hold-down thing. Uh-oh. My strut tool does not fit over the shaft of the new strut. New shaft is a *slightly* wide diameter than was the old one. Oh-no, Adv Auto sold me the wrong strut. It was *very* similar, but not quite the same.

Now its 10pm and my car is taken apart. I need the car for the morning. What do do? The only thing I could think of to do was to file down the nubs on the inside of my strut tool so the thing would fit over the shaft of the new strut.

An hour and a half later, I finally had the nubs filed down far enough so the strut tool fit over the shaft of the new strut. Installed the strut-well lid. Inserted the two bushings, and installed new shaft bolt with the wrench and torx bit. One side down, one to go.

Drivers side disassembled quicker than the passenger side, with the exception of the fact that the strut cartridge well was not aligned with the top hole in the strut tower. It was a bit askew.It took a fair amount of pulling and horsing to get the old strut cartridge out of there. I wondered how on earth I was going to get the new one in there, together with those rubber bushings. Yikes.

There was a lot more oil in this shaft, and I soaked three shop rags swabbing it out. Finally got it clean. Put in the new strut cartridge, after releasing the shaft. Wow it was a bear getting that thing down in there because of the unaligned strut well/tower opening. It was also very difficult and time-consuming getting the strut well cover back on. It was very hard getting my strut tool down in there, nubs in holes, with the cover actually threading straight. After about 40 minutes it was in. First rubber bushing was easy, but the second was very difficult to get down back into the hole. After about twenty more minutes of wrestling, it was back down in there and the tower cover reinstalled.

Moral of this story is bring old parts into auto parts store and go over the new ones with a magnifying glass to make sure it is exactly identical to the old part, right down to every millimeter in dimension. Do not accept "close enough". It has got to be the EXACT right thing. Had I done that, this strut job would have been a lot easier.

[maxwedge]

The oil is in the strut housing for cooling purpose you should not have removed it, there is a measured amount that is supposed to surround the catridges as heat is generated as they function, you really should get some hydraulic oil back in the housing, the amount should have been in the instructions in the boxes.

[popof10]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

The oil is in the strut housing for cooling purpose you should not have removed it, there is a measured amount that is supposed to surround the catridges as heat is generated as they function, you really should get some hydraulic oil back in the housing, the amount should have been in the instructions in the boxes.

Thank you for your input. There was no such instruction or oil included in the strut packaging. The alldatadiy.com procedures say "The cartridge does not need oil added unless specified. If oil is not supplied with the cartridge, add the specified amount of hydraulic jack oil.".

[maxwedge]

Right, but you said you removed the oil from the strut housing, so you need to put back enough to surround the cartridge. Obviously they cannot package oil, but the expectation is that the oil would not be intentionally removed.

[popof10]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

Right, but you said you removed the oil from the strut housing, so you need to put back enough to surround the cartridge. Obviously they cannot package oil, but the expectation is that the oil would not be intentionally removed.

Thank you again for your input. The repair instructions for my car in the Haynes Guide, alldatadiy.com, as well autozone.com all stipulated that the oil must be removed from the chamber once the old strut was removed. The procedures said to remove the oil using a "suction device". I do not have a suction device, so I swabbed the oil out. Moreover, there was no instruction in any of my three sources of installation instructions concerning oil replacement or any actual oil or instructions concerning adding oil included in the new strut packaging. I took the directive to remove the oil from the strut housing at face value, and did so. I also took the fact that the new cartridge did not specify it needed any new oil at face value, together with the fact that there was no installation instruction to add oil in Haynes or any of the other guides to add new oil back in so I added none. Had there been any kind of explicit instruction to the contrary, of course I would have added oil.

Also, I read somewhere in researching all of this (though I admit I don't remember where at the moment) that the presence of oil in the strut housing upon removal of the old struts was indicative of the old struts leaking oil.

There was a little oil in the passenger side. Maybe an eigth of an inch pooled in the bottom. There was about twice that in the drivers side.

Anyway, I'll go back over all my sources for a third time rechecking this. If I am wrong, I am glad to be corrected, but right now, in terms of the sources I consulted, I don't see where I went wrong in the decision to not replace the oil.

Again, thank you for your feedback. It really is appreciated.

[maxwedge]

Last input from me, look at step 9 notes in the autozone text for your car. Since the cartridge is a drop in replacement it is dependent on the oil in the housing for cooling, full strut replacements already are built with the oil in the strut casing

[popof10]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

Last input from me, look at step 9 notes in the autozone text for your car. Since the cartridge is a drop in replacement it is dependent on the oil in the housing for cooling, full strut replacements already are built with the oil in the strut casing

Yes, thank you, I had quoted this note earlier. It says, "The cartridge does not need oil added unless specified. If oil is not supplied with the cartridge, add the specified amount of hydraulic jack oil."

Nothing in or on the cartridge packaging "specified" it needed oil added. Just checked the box for the third time this evening. So I added none. Had it specified it, I would add it. Here are how my written resources broke down on this issue.

1) Haynes Guide - instructed me to remove oil and said nothing about replacing the oil

Step 6 of Removal says: "If the old cartridge had been leaking oil, use a suction pump to remove the damper fluid from the strut body and pour it into an approved container." Reading further, there is nothing in the installation instructions about replaing the oil. And the quote above seems to indicate that oil in the strut is attributable to a leaking strut cartridge. Which mine were.

2) Alldatadiy.com - instructed me to remove oil and said nothing about replacing oil.

3) AutozoneRepair Guide - explicitly instructed to remove oil, said nothing about replacing oil other than note contained Step 9 of the Installation procedure to add oil *IF* instructions with the replacement cartride so specified. Which mine did not.

To my admittedly untrained eye, it woulld seem that the preponderance of the evidence points toward the apparent need for an oil-free strut body or this particular model car. Thugh I admit I still could be wrong. It would not have been the first time.

Again, I thank you, and best of success to you.

[NeonKnight]

lol?