Starting Problems

[corey1127]

Hello, I have a 1994 Buick Park Avenue with 138,000 actual miles that is giving me the fits, first of all I bought this vehicle from a auction and it didn't have the Vats ignition so I went to Auto Zone and bought a aftermarket one without the Vats ignition and the car ran perfect for months with the only one problem the crack sensor so I replaced it and now when the ignition is in the on position the rpm gauge is erratic and moves up and down and you can hear a funny noise coming from the fuel rail or fuel injectors so I replaced the spark plugs because they were full of gas. What could be the problem with this car. Please help

[HotZ28]

It would help to have some codes first. I would suspect the cam sensor or the timing set. (Cam gear magnet). The injector pulse is controlled by the cam sensor and if faulty, or not being properly made by the cam gear magnet, your injector timing will be random (not in time)! You could also have ignition module, coil or cam sensor malfunction. Of course this is just an educated guess without codes. See if you can get those & post back. The 94 was still OBD1 and would require an OBD1 capable scanner.

[corey1127]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

It would help to have some codes first. I would suspect the cam sensor or the timing set. (Cam gear magnet). The injector pulse is controlled by the cam sensor and if faulty, or not being properly made by the cam gear magnet, your injector timing will be random (not in time)! You could also have ignition module, coil or cam sensor malfunction. Of course this just an educated guess without codes. See if you can get those & post back. The 94 was still OBD1 and would require an OBD1 scanner.

When I used a scanner it says link error, I'm curious I installed a aftermarket ignition not the Vats ignition and the car ran perfect but know I have mechanics telling me that I need to installed the vats ignition is that bull or the truth does that have something to do with the link error I've tried different machines even at Autozone the car at first would stall out and if I waited a few minutes it would start up perfect but one night it stalled and wouldn't re-start so I had a mechanic change the cam sensor and the crankshaft sensor and now nothing I just get the funny noise near the injectors and the rpm gauge moves erratic in the on position and the spark plugs with gas on them is their another way to check codes on this car.

[Loekee75]

Originally Posted by corey1127

When I used a scanner it says link error, I'm curious I installed a aftermarket ignition not the Vats ignition and the car ran perfect but know I have mechanics telling me that I need to installed the vats ignition is that bull or the truth does that have something to do with the link error I've tried different machines even at Autozone the car at first would stall out and if I waited a few minutes it would start up perfect but one night it stalled and wouldn't re-start so I had a mechanic change the cam sensor and the crankshaft sensor and now nothing I just get the funny noise near the injectors and the rpm gauge moves erratic in the on position and the spark plugs with gas on them is their another way to check codes on this car.

With as many miles as your car has you should have had the timing set and magnet replaced at the same time as the cam sensor. I don't think your aftermarket ignition is causing the problem because it wouldn't cause stalling. When my 92' reached over 130,000 miles a little over a year ago it stalled out and the fault was the magnet and worn out timing chain, but the sensor itself was fine.

[corey1127]

Originally Posted by Loekee75

With as many miles as your car has you should have had the timing set and magnet replaced at the same time as the cam sensor. I don't think your aftermarket ignition is causing the problem because it wouldn't cause stalling. When my 92' reached over 130,000 miles a little over a year ago it stalled out and the fault was the magnet and worn out timing chain, but the sensor itself was fine.

What magnet are you talking about this car is strange it went from starting and running ok to complete possessed vehicle and it's coming from the funning noise I hear in the fuel rail and the rpm gauge jumping in the on position.

[Loekee75]

Originally Posted by corey1127

What magnet are you talking about this car is strange it went from starting and running ok to complete possessed vehicle and it's coming from the funning noise I hear in the fuel rail and the rpm gauge jumping in the on position.

The magnet is attached to the camshaft gear. The magnet spins with the camshaft, and each time the camshaft position sensor reads it to give the ECM the info it needs to keep the engine running in time correctly. When this magnet finally wears out (or in some cases breaks off completely) the code will come up for a camshaft position malfunction, and the magnet will have to be replaced with a new timing set. My car ran alright for a while with this problem, but would stall at times and even wouldn't start all the time.
What does this strange noise you hear sound like? A click, thump, knock..?

[corey1127]

Originally Posted by Loekee75

The magnet is attached to the camshaft gear. The magnet spins with the camshaft, and each time the camshaft position sensor reads it to give the ECM the info it needs to keep the engine running in time correctly. When this magnet finally wears out (or in some cases breaks off completely) the code will come up for a camshaft position malfunction, and the magnet will have to be replaced with a new timing set. My car ran alright for a while with this problem, but would stall at times and even wouldn't start all the time.
What does this strange noise you hear sound like? A click, thump, knock..?

Like gas is going through a clogged fuel line but why is gas running through when the car is in the on position, that's seem to be the flooding problem because I didn't hear this noise when the car was funning fine.

[Loekee75]

Originally Posted by corey1127

Like gas is going through a clogged fuel line but why is gas running through when the car is in the on position, that's seem to be the flooding problem because I didn't hear this noise when the car was funning fine.

It sounds like it could be a bad fuel injector (may be clogged, have an electrical issue..etc)

[corey1127]

Originally Posted by Loekee75

It sounds like it could be a bad fuel injector (may be clogged, have an electrical issue..etc)

Someone told me to take off the number 1 spark plug wire off the coil pack and use a electric meter and hold a 1/4 off coil and turn the car over and check for a spark and when I did the test I didn't get any spark, how accurate is that test I want to get this car running ASAP it was running excellent now it's going to turn me into a drunk. Is there a way to read the codes on this car myself or will I have to take it to a shop I was told by a mechanic my problem lies in the VATS key area since I purchased the car from a auction and it didn't have a ignition I brought one from Murrays Auto Parts and it came without the chip in the key but it also had two wires which I was told was used to bypass the Vats system and I drove this car without a problem for a few months so I'm thinking this can't be a VATS key issue. Any suggestions

[HotZ28]

If the starter turns over and your fuel pump is working while you are trying to start the engine, it is not a VATS related problem. Also, when you first turn on the ignition, the fuel pump should only run for two seconds to prime the lines and then shut off until you either start the engine, or turn the ignition off and back on to the start position. If you continue to try to start the car and there is no spark, your injectors are pulsing and spraying fuel into the combustion chamber. Without fire from the plugs it will appear to be "flooded", when you pull a plug.

Pull a plug wire off and insert a screw driver in the boot, then hold it 1/4 to 1/2 inch away from a ground source, (metal engine part) and then turn the engine over to see if you have spark. (You may need someone to help). You should see a blue (hot) spark jump from the screwdriver metal to ground. If not, you do not have spark! It's obvious that you have fuel from what you have said in previous post.

The 94 was OBD1 with a 16 pin OBD11 ADL connector. Somewhat weird, but some shops would know what you have if you call and give them the above description.

Your VATS system has nothing to do with retrieving codes! The fact that AutoZone could not read your codes was due to them not having the correct OBD1 capable scanner!

You also need to test the fuel pressure with a gage on the rail. It should be between 38-45 psi. If your fuel pump is in fact running all the time, you may have a bad regulator allowing the fuel to go back to the gas tank.

Check again for spark and fuel pressure, then post back.

[MWW]

One more possibility - I was told by my mechanic that these cars have an oil pressure senor lockout in the ignition. The car will not start until there is sufficient oil pressure to prevent excessive wear while starting. You might want to verify that the oil pressure sensor is working - put a volt meter across the wires while cranking and look for a voltage change. Sorry, I don't know where it is located (I only know what I've had to learn the hard way). Good luck.