Upper Intake Manifold

[pryornfld]

Hello All,

Got my CEL scanned on Monday and it came back with code P0301 Misfire CYC #1. Also noticed that there seems to be a coolant leak, but it must be internal as there is no signs on the ground.
Could the mis and the loss of coolant be related? Also, how difficult to do the manifold gasket repair? Should I also clean the EGR ports while down there?

Just in case I don't get back till after XMAS.
Enjoy the holidays, be safe and have fun.Best wishes to all!!

Dion

[tasteph]

Originally Posted by pryornfld

Should I also clean the EGR ports while down there?

I’d certainly check them and if a good cleaning is needed then by all means it’d be the perfect time to do that.

[phil-l]

I'm more concerned about a potential internal coolant leak.

What year/engine is your Windstar? If it's one of the years noted for head gasket failures ('95 was recalled, but some later years also seemed to have problems), has the head gasket been replaced?

[pryornfld]

Just got back from Xmas vacation. My van is a 96 3.8L with 190,000KM. I'm hoping to get more into it after I recover from the XMAS holiday spending. From some info I gathered over the holidays it seems more likely a manifold intake gasket. Once I get it taken down, will post back.

[79CHEVY4X4]

Originally Posted by pryornfld

Just got back from Xmas vacation. My van is a 96 3.8L with 190,000KM. I'm hoping to get more into it after I recover from the XMAS holiday spending. From some info I gathered over the holidays it seems more likely a manifold intake gasket. Once I get it taken down, will post back.

NOTE:
BEFORE YOU PULL IT ALL APART DO A COMPRESSION CHECK ON #1 CYL. IT SHOULD BE ABOUT 170 TO 180 MAYBE EVEN DO MORE THAN ONE AND COMPARE THEM. I HAVE SEEN THREE OF THESE CASES IN THE LAST YEAR. TWO GOT NEW MOTORS - DUE TO BENT CONNECTING ROD AND CYLINDER WALL EROSION ON THE #1 CYL. -- $5K+ -- INSTALLED. ONE WAS CAUGHT IN TIME -- AN UPDATED INTAKE MANIFOLD DESIGN IS AVAILABLE THROUGH FORD ( NOT IN THE AFTERMARKET YET) ITS THE LIKE FORTH DESIGN USING 4MM INTAKE GASKETS INSTEAD OF 3MM TO COMBAT SRINKAGE. IT WILL SET YOU BACK ABOUT FOUR BILLS FOR THE KIT. IT ALSO ADDRESSES THE EGR PLUGING PROBLEM. IF YOU DECIDE THIS IS THE ROUTE FOR YOU DONT FORGET THE (IMRC) CLIPS THEY ALWAYS BREAK DURING REMOVAL AND THE BI-PASS HOSE AND TUBE ASSY (OE ONLY).
AND IN CASE THAT ISN'T ENOUGH TO HURT YOUR BRAIN DON'T FORGET TO LOOK AT THE TIMING CHAIN COVER TO BLOCK GASKET AT THE REARWARD PORTION OF THE MOTOR (ALWAYS LEAKING)
PS. DON'T TRY THIS ONE AT HOME FOLKS -- FOR THE A/C SYSTEM MUST BE DISCHARGED AND THE ENGINE /TRANS/SUB FRAME ASSY. MUST COME OUT THE BOTTOM AND REQUIRES SPECIAL TOOLS TO RESET THE CAM SENSOR AFTER REMOVAL.
GOOD LUCK!

[wiswind]

2 common leaks mor likely than head gasket for the '96 are, as you mentioned, the lower intake manifold gasket. There are NO coolant gaskets involved with the upper intake manifold.

The other common leak is the gasket for the "front cover" also called "timing chain cover". These both can leak internal and external.

The "front cover" gasket is a VERY labor intensive (and as such expensive) repair.

I had a VERY SLIGHT leakage, I beleive at both locations. I have had good luck keeping NO loss of coolant with Bar's Stop Leak (I use Liquid Aluminimn or similar Bar's product). As I said....I had VERY slight leakage.....like needing to add some to the overflow bottle at MOST, once a month.
I also change my coolant once a year....and always put in the amount of Bar's Stop Leak product to treat the total capacity of my cooling system.

If you change the lower intake manifold gasket.....I would check / clean the EGR ports, the IMRC butterflies, and also remove and spray cleaner on the spray end of the fuel injectors.

I have not done the lower intake manifold gasket...or had the lower intake manifold off....but have had my upper intake manifold off "a few" times. So, I am sorry that I cannot give you any other pointers....or pictures.

I have pictures of what you will be seeing when you remove the upper intake manifold in my pictures at http://community.webshots.com/album/201931518cScpNK

[pryornfld]

Had the timing cover replaced for coolant leak. This only caused the leak , but no misfire. Now it has a misfire so I suspect manifold gasket. About once a month, the overflow bottle will be low to the bottom, I would thing bring it back up to the cold line(full).
Do you have to remove/raise the tranny/engine in order to do the manifold gasket repair? I know you have to for the timing cover and water pump.

[windsour]

No need to raise engine/transmission to replace intake manifold gaskets - it all comes out up top. Removing the cowl cover gives you more room to work, and be careful to reconnect all the vacuum lines on the back of the upper intake manifold when done.

[pryornfld]

Finally getting around to troubleshooting this problem. Good thing I have two machines to use. Anyway, got the codes read one more time, got P0301 and P0303. I assume that both of these are next to each other. compression test determined that head gasket appear ok. Also the module that sits at the back that adjusts idle ( runs off EGR valve I think) seems to be doing it own thing. Causes RPMS to jump.
My main concern is stopping the misfire and coolant leak. What symptons should I have if it in fact the head gasket?

Thanks
Dion

P.S: About how long should it take if it is the intake gasket?

[wiswind]

I have not replaced a lower intake manifold gasket, but I have looked the gasket up and found that they list a 3mm and a 4mm, so you will want to be sure to get the correct one for your engine.

Cylinders 1 and 3 are not next to each other. Cylinder #1 (P0301) is on the back passenger side of the engine. Cylinder #3 (P0303) is on the back driver side of the engine.

Both the lower intake gasket and the head gasket can cause coolant into the cylinder(s) of the engine. As you have to remove the lower intake manifold to replace the lower intake manifold gaskets, take the opportunity to clean the EGR ports and the IMR "butterflies" and linkage. Make sure that the IMRC linkage is in good shape. I would also remove each fuel injector from the head, and spray some cleaner into the cap over the spray end to clean them up. You can order a set of "O" ring gaskets for the fuel injectors also.

I mention these things as you are right there, and it is so easy to do.
Would be a shame to have it all apart, and then have to tear things apart again in a month or so for another problem. This should have all these things in very good shape for a long time to come.

Also, while you have things apart, give all the vaccum lines a good looking over for any signs of heat, cracking, etc.

Also.....make sure to pay careful attention to torque specs..... Do NOT confuse ft/lbs for in/lbs or you will have a broken bold to deal with.

[pryornfld]

Thanks Wiswind!!
I probably won't be doing this myself as it is winter and I don't have a garage. I will probably bring it to my mechanic as he is the one that done the compression/code test for me.I trust him and he has never let me down. I will also mention about the IMRC linkage and injectors. Not sure how difficult it would be once everything is taken apart to know for sure that its not a head gasket. Any suggestions??

[pryornfld]

Originally Posted by pryornfld

Thanks Wiswind!!
I probably won't be doing this myself as it is winter and I don't have a garage. I will probably bring it to my mechanic as he is the one that done the compression/code test for me.I trust him and he has never let me down. I will also mention about the IMRC linkage and injectors. Not sure how difficult it would be once everything is taken apart to know for sure that its not a head gasket. Any suggestions??

Hello All,

Sorry that I didn't get back sooner. Put the van in a couple of weeks ago and goth the intake manifold gasket replaced, egr ports,injectors cleaned. So far so good. Would have posted earlier, but computer died and just got a new one. Go figure!!