Suspension

mark281 · #1 12-22-2005, 07:07 AM

I am going to buy new shocks and struts. I know they sell frame connectors for stability also. Do I need to buy those also if I am not going to do any engine work. I have a 2000 LS1 Formula. Just wondering if I need the connectors if I am not enhancing horsepower. Also, what kind of shocks and struts should I buy?

88camaroproject · #2 12-22-2005, 08:43 AM

kyb shocks and struts are nice and pretty cheap. and sub frame connectors would be good to stiffen up the car and a strut tower brace would help in the turns.

tuske427 · #3 12-22-2005, 10:13 AM

you don't need subframe connectors for your 4th gen car, especially if you're not racing it/ increasing it's performance.

If you decide that you wish to increase your car's handling, then things like the shock tower brace, subframe connectors, etc. would come into play. You could also consider stiffer springs, bigger anti sway bars, polyurethane bushings, panhard bar, etc..

However- before you open your wallet for items like these you should read this book:

How to Tune & Modify Your Camaro 1982-1998: 1982-1998

don't be fooled by the word "camaro" it applies to Pontiacs too. There is good info in this book on suspension pieces- which ones to buy, and what you really need and really don't need.

here's a link for it at amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076...86301?n=283155

Good luck!

Mr. Luos · #4 12-22-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuske427

you don't need subframe connectors for your 4th gen car, especially if you're not racing it/ increasing it's performance.

I disagree.
The amount of torque from the car in even stock form can twist the subframes. Enough twisting can start to dimple the rear quarter panels.

Control arms, subframe connectors, panhard bar, 1LE sway bar are good suspension starting points. Some of these need to be adjustable if you lower the car.
Being the Formula you have a softer spring/shock. Might not be a bad upgrade either.
I don't think the strut tower brace really does much on these cars. I felt a much larger difference with the subframe connectors.

tuske427 · #5 12-23-2005, 10:48 AM

Mr. Luos- he mentioned he was NOT going to do any engine work. He just wants to replace the shocks and springs. Because of this I do not think he needs subframe connectors. It's overkill in his case. He's not drag racing, he's not autocrossing, etc...

From my experience of owning both 3- '84 T/A (3rd gen) and 1995 T/A (4th) and reading various sources of books, articles, etc GM increased the front subframe on the 4th gen cars tremendiously. They made the 4th gen cars much more solid than the 3rd gen cars. Furthermore, they designed the cars to have t-tops (which they didn't do for second and third gen cars) which is why you see non t-top cars withthe t-top brace in the interior and why people can easily convert them to t-top models. This can not be so easily done with 2nd or 3rd gen cars, as you probably know.

If he were going to increase engine power, or had the intention of racing his car, then I would have reccomended either subrame connectors or a roll cage (or both) would help to stiffen his chassis. I would further specify "double diamond" style subframe connectors, too.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning the benefit of subframe connectors, but, because he is just replacing shocks and springs on a stock car, I don't think he needs them. It would be an unnecessary expense.

-BV

Mr. Luos · #6 12-23-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuske427

Mr. Luos- he mentioned he was NOT going to do any engine work. He just wants to replace the shocks and springs. Because of this I do not think he needs subframe connectors. It's overkill in his case. He's not drag racing, he's not autocrossing, etc...

I understand your point, so please don't think I am trying to argue with you. Just stating what I think....which can be wrong.

I personally have seen street driven 4th gens dimple rear quarter panels. No track time, be it AutoX or drag.
In my opinion subframe connectors are a good mod for even a completely stock car. If he wants handling they help too.
The hardtop cars have less chance of dimpling the quarter panels. They are more rigid. But a stock T-Top/Vert car can only benefit from $150 subframe connectors.

mark281 · #7 12-23-2005, 03:48 PM

Thanks for the info. I will probably buy the connectors due to the T-Tops. I appreciate everyones help!

~redlinels1~ · #8 12-25-2005, 12:27 AM

I have dimples in my 1/4 panels and I only drag race a few times out of the year. If I could go back in time, sfc's would be the 1st thing I would buy.

They play a very important role whether you race or not.

FormulaLT1 · #9 12-25-2005, 12:38 AM

I agree that subframes are a very valuable mod. You can feel a big difference in the strength and feel of your vehicles chasis. I would not think twice to recommend this mod to everyone from stock to stripped out drag car but I would also recommend a Strut tower brace. The more solid your vehicle is From front to back. The better if will handle and it will need to be aligned less often and the less flexing from side to side for the front wheel means that both front wheels will be planted better to the ground. I did notice a difference with my STB but I would go a step further than recommending mine and say to get a 3 point.

mark281 · #10 12-25-2005, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormulaLT1

I agree that subframes are a very valuable mod. You can feel a big difference in the strength and feel of your vehicles chasis. I would not think twice to recommend this mod to everyone from stock to stripped out drag car but I would also recommend a Strut tower brace. The more solid your vehicle is From front to back. The better if will handle and it will need to be aligned less often and the less flexing from side to side for the front wheel means that both front wheels will be planted better to the ground. I did notice a difference with my STB but I would go a step further than recommending mine and say to get a 3 point.

Would you suggest buying parts from ebay or not. I saw some brand name things pretty cheap. Anyone who has experience buying auto parts there?

FormulaLT1 · #11 12-25-2005, 08:25 AM

Thats actually where I got both my SLP subframes and SLP strut tower brace. LOL, sorry MR.Luos, I know your not a fan of SLP anymore but the double diamonds are suppose to be one of the better designs. I bought the bolt on and then had that welded as well. For the strut tower brace , I would suggest maybe a BMR or any 3 point name brand STB, just stay away from the non brand names pieces cause your taking a chance, they could be great pieces or they could come much thinner material than it appears.

Mr. Luos · #12 12-25-2005, 09:38 AM

Those diamond shaped ones are the subframe connectors I have.

I just don't put SLP in front of it on the mod list anymore.

tuske427 · #13 12-27-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

I understand your point, so please don't think I am trying to argue with you. Just stating what I think....which can be wrong.

I personally have seen street driven 4th gens dimple rear quarter panels. No track time, be it AutoX or drag.
In my opinion subframe connectors are a good mod for even a completely stock car. If he wants handling they help too.
The hardtop cars have less chance of dimpling the quarter panels. They are more rigid. But a stock T-Top/Vert car can only benefit from $150 subframe connectors.

It's all good, Mr. Luos. Sounds like others have shared your experiences, which is good to learn from. I haven't had or seen this personally ("stock" 4th gen cars dimple up. modified/ raced is another story), but just because I havn't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

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