LeSabre 94 dies sometimes

[sebaz]

Automotive Forums

I got a 94 Buick LeSabre. Since about a couple months ago, when I try to start the engine, it will start and then die about three seconds later. Sometimes it will start at the second try, but the coldest the weather gets, the harder it takes to get it started. Two days ago it took me about 10 tries to finally get it going, but it died on me about 3 times on the 7 miles I have to work. This was the worst case, but before that it also died on my wife a few times. Amd sometimes it doesn't die, but it seems like the engine stops for a split second, the speed needle jumps a bit and the warning lights come on for a fraction of a second, but after that it keeps going.

I don't know anything about mechanics, but I thought it might be the battery, becase I don't think it's ever been replaced and the car has 96,000 miles on it. I took it to the Autozone for a complete test, and they told me that because it's a 94 they can't plug in the tester machine, but they were able to test the battery and they told me it's fine.

I would like to try out a few things before having to take it to the mechanic and pay $75 an hour just to learn what's wrong with it. Can anybody tell me what it might be, judging by the symptoms?
Also, I would like to try replacing the spark plugs, if it's something that a layman can do, even if it takes me a long time, because I'm sure they have never been changed and I have a gut feeling that the problem could be related to that, but maybe I'm wrong. Can anybody point me to a website with a tutorial on how to replace spark plugs on a 94 LeSabre? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Sebastian Alvarez

[HotZ28]

When the car dies, is it at idle speed or while you are driving highway speeds? First guess on this would be that the cold start enrichment is not taking place. This is like a choke; however it is controlled by the PCM with feedback from the CTS.

Changing plugs on the front is very easy, but the back side can be challenging. It helps to remove the strut brace, however I never do. I use a flex plug socket with a 3'' extension and a flex ratchet. Very easy with that combo! You may not be able to see back there, but you can feel it easy.

[sebaz]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

When the car dies, is it at idle speed or while you are driving highway speeds? First guess on this would be that the cold start enrichment is not taking place. This is like a choke; however it is controlled by the PCM with feedback from the CTS.

Changing plugs on the front is very easy, but the back side can be challenging. It helps to remove the strut brace, however I never do. I use a flex plug socket with a 3'' extension and a flex ratchet. Very easy with that combo! You may not be able to see back there, but you can feel it easy.

It happens both at idle (like when I start it) and high speed when I go at about 50 or 60 Mph.

I don't understand any of the other things you mention, I know nothing about mechanics. I would like to find some kind of tutorial with illustrations online so I can change them myself.

Thanks

[HotZ28]

If it dies going at highway speed, you either have ignition (spark) power or ground interruptions or fuel related problems. It would be better to let a mechanic see if it has any codes for starters. Intermittent stalling is difficult to diagnose without being in the car when it happens and checking things out when it is in a no start mode.

Bad plugs will cause a misfire, however I have never heard of a total shutdown situation caused by plugs!

If you want to learn something about the mechanical and electrical functions of the car, you would be better off buying a Haynes or Chilton’s repair manual at your local auto parts store.

[Loekee75]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

If it dies going at highway speed, you either have ignition (spark) power or ground interruptions or fuel related problems. It would be better to let a mechanic see if it has any codes for starters. Intermittent stalling is difficult to diagnose without being in the car when it happens and checking things out when it is in a no start mode.

Bad plugs will cause a misfire, however I have never heard of a total shutdown situation caused by plugs!

If you want to learn something about the mechanical and electrical functions of the car, you would be better off buying a Haynes or Chilton’s repair manual at your local auto parts store.

Hotz28 had the same thing in mind that I did, roughly 20 bucks will buy you a manual that perfectly explains how to do from simple to complex repairs. They have a troubleshooting section that will help pinpoint several problems for the inexperienced "do it yourselfer" that's how I learned, anyways!

[auto trainy]

Reading the your post I think it would wiser if you found a good mechanic (ask around ).

[sebaz]

I finally found what was wrong. Those rubber hoses that go to and from the PCV valve were so old that were all rotten and one of them had a curve, and being the curve broken most of the air was leaking out of it. So I bought a few new ones at the Autozone, and changed them right there at the parking lot. Strangely enough, the first time I started the car it still died, so I thought, damn, it wasn't this. However, this morning, with like 35 degrees, it started just fine and stayed on. On my way to work and back, it didn't cut off for a split second like it used to, and I started the engine a few times during the day just to test it, and each time it started right away and stayed on.

Still, I bought the Chilton manual, spark plugs, PCV valve and fuel filter and I intend to change all of them this weekend. I bought Bosch 2 Platinum spark plugs, which were like twice the price of the regular platinum ones. Are they really good? Anybody tried them? I couldn't buy new cables because the whole set would be $45, and I'm short on money. Is it really important to change the cables too?

As for the PCV valve and fuel filter, I purchased those at Car Quest, and they're their own brand. Should I try to get the AC-Delco originals, or are the Car Quest products good quality?

Thanks for any advice,

Sebastian

[Loekee75]

Originally Posted by sebaz

I finally found what was wrong. Those rubber hoses that go to and from the PCV valve were so old that were all rotten and one of them had a curve, and being the curve broken most of the air was leaking out of it. So I bought a few new ones at the Autozone, and changed them right there at the parking lot. Strangely enough, the first time I started the car it still died, so I thought, damn, it wasn't this. However, this morning, with like 35 degrees, it started just fine and stayed on. On my way to work and back, it didn't cut off for a split second like it used to, and I started the engine a few times during the day just to test it, and each time it started right away and stayed on.

Still, I bought the Chilton manual, spark plugs, PCV valve and fuel filter and I intend to change all of them this weekend. I bought Bosch 2 Platinum spark plugs, which were like twice the price of the regular platinum ones. Are they really good? Anybody tried them? I couldn't buy new cables because the whole set would be $45, and I'm short on money. Is it really important to change the cables too?

As for the PCV valve and fuel filter, I purchased those at Car Quest, and they're their own brand. Should I try to get the AC-Delco originals, or are the Car Quest products good quality?

Thanks for any advice,

Sebastian

Personally, I would stick with a/c delco. I don't know what it is, but my PA had always performed better with factory brand plugs. Everyone I've talked to has recommended using a/c delco on GM vehicles (unless they are otherwise modified, of course) As long as the PCV valve and fuel filter are the right ones for your car, they should work fine. I've used throttle body cleaner to clean both the throttle body and inside PCV lines
(as directed on the can) and the car ran GREAT after that! It cleans out unseen sludge and really improves engine power and idle quality.
And as for your wires, that really depends on how old they are. On most cases I've seen, they usually are ok to be reused. However, if they are really, really old you should change them with your plugs (kill 2 birds with 1 stone, you know?) Good look with the tune -up!

[sebaz]

Well, it seems it's going to take a bigger effort to get rid of the starting problem. At first I thought I had taken care of it by replacing those rubber hoses (which I had mistakenly stated were coming in and out of the PCV valve, but today I located the PCV valve and it's in a totally different place). But weird thing, after one day of not coming up, the next day the starting problem showed up again. Except that the other problem I had mentioned, the engine cutting off for a split second when driving, that didn't happen again.

So I stopped at Car Quest, and they told me a possible reason for the starting problem was the PCV valve, and that it would be a good idea to change the fuel filter and also the spark plugs. So I bought all that along with a Chilton manual, and today I changed the PCV valve, fuel filter and replaced the plugs with Bosch 2 ones also with Bosch premium wires. The car seems to work a little better, the idle sounds more uniform at least. But the starting problem is still there, only after the car has cooled down, because if I start it only a few minutes after it's been running, it starts the engine just fine. But if it cooled down, when I start it it will die after a second or two.

Any suggestions on what's my next step? I really want to avoid taking it to a mechanic and wasting a lot of extra money if it's something that I can take care of myself, such as these things I did today.

Also, if anybody can tell me, when I pulled the old PCV valve it had an oily liquid all over it, and once I pulled it, the place where it sat began smoking a little bit, until all the rest of that liquid evaporated. Is it normal for that chamber to have some type of liquid, or is it a sign of something wrong?

Thanks,

Sebastian

[HotZ28]

If the car is cutting off only when cold, it could be, (again) that the cold start enrichment is not taking place. This is like a choke; however it is controlled by the PCM with feedback from the CTS. You could have a bad cam sensor, crank sensor or ignition module problems, however, without codes, we are just guessing!

You really need to see if you have any codes and post back? Your observation of the PCV valve cavity condition is normal.

[sebaz]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

If the car is cutting off only when cold, it could be, (again) that the cold start enrichment is not taking place. This is like a choke; however it is controlled by the PCM with feedback from the CTS. You could have a bad cam sensor, crank sensor or ignition module problems, however, without codes, we are just guessing!

You really need to see if you have any codes and post back? Your observation of the PCV valve cavity condition is normal.

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I really have no idea what are you saying because as I said I know next to nothing about mechanics. I have no idea what the PCM is, or the CTS. I looked those up in the Chilton manual but I couldn't find those terms in the index. I'll try to look them up online if they are somewhere. I wish I could post back the codes, but the cheapest code reader is over 70 bucks at Advance Auto Parts, so no chance I can get that anytime soon, especially after having spent money on all the other stuff.

Sebastian

[HotZ28]

PCM = Power train control module (or the computer)
CTS = Coolant temperature sensor

You should be able to find those definitions in the Chilton manual. Also, you can get Advanced Auto parts or AutoZone to run the codes for you and it is free!!

[sebaz]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

PCM = Power train control module (or the computer)
CTS = Coolant temperature sensor

You should be able to find those definitions in the Chilton manual. Also, you can get Advanced Auto parts or AutoZone to run the codes for you and it is free!!

Thanks for the descrptions, now I get a better idea. It might be that, when you say it's like a choke, that's exactly how it feels, that the engine is choking for a second and then dies.

I went to the Autozone when all this started, and asked them to hook up the machine, but they told me that was only for cars 1996 and up, because older cars don't have the connector for the tester. However, while I was replacing the turn signal flasher the other day, I saw what seemed to be a tester connector close to where the fuse box is. So I will go there again and ask them. I'm not sure the PCM will show any trouble codes, because if it had any, the "Service Engine Soon" light should come up, shouldn't it? But maybe I'm wrong on that. I'll go there and ask them anyway.

Thanks,
Sebastian

[LeSabre97mint]

Originally Posted by sebaz

Thanks for the descrptions, now I get a better idea. It might be that, when you say it's like a choke, that's exactly how it feels, that the engine is choking for a second and then dies.

I went to the Autozone when all this started, and asked them to hook up the machine, but they told me that was only for cars 1996 and up, because older cars don't have the connector for the tester. However, while I was replacing the turn signal flasher the other day, I saw what seemed to be a tester connector close to where the fuse box is. So I will go there again and ask them. I'm not sure the PCM will show any trouble codes, because if it had any, the "Service Engine Soon" light should come up, shouldn't it? But maybe I'm wrong on that. I'll go there and ask them anyway.

Thanks,
Sebastian

Sebastian

Most cars 1996 and newer have OBDII. Prier to that cars had OBDI.

Autozone only checks OBDII.

Do a search on the web for OBD. look for how to get the codes from OBDI cars.

Regards

Dan

[HotZ28]

Isn’t that a shame! I would think that most of their customers still drive pre 95 cars!! I know when I go by Advanced and AutoZone, on the way to NAPA, the parking lot looks like "going back in time". (Time-warp)