Pontiac 350

[troy8964]

Alright my only question is this i have been told both small block and big block..what exactly is it a Pontiac 350 a small block 350 or a big block 350?

[BleedDodge]

If it's a Pontiac engine it's a big block.

[MrPbody]

Sorry, dude. If it's a Pontiac, it's a Pontiac. There are no "big block" or "small block" Pontiacs.

There ARE the two "bastard stepchildren", 265 and 301, but Pontiac people try not to think about those engines. Those are "low deck" versions of the taller block.

Dimensionally speaking, all Pontiac V8s (except the two noted above) are virtually identical from the outside. There are variations based on year and vehicle when it comes to mounting points and bellhousing patterns.

If you want to sound foolish in a Pontiac crowd, call it a "big block". You'll get a tirade of "There's no such thing!"

If you want to sound educated among the Chevy Dodge or Ford crowd, correct them when they say "big block Pontiac".

While it may seem like a "no biggee", some Pontiac fanatics will get down right hostile about it. I am not one of those. I simply understand where the myth comes from, and correct them. Unlike Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Olds, Buick, etc. etc. etc., Pontiac is like AMC. There's only one size (externally), and that's enough.

There ARE "large journal" and "small journal" blocks. The main bearing journal in the 421-up is 3.25" while the 400-smaller is 3" (including the 265/301).

Kinda cool if you think about it. From 287 CID ('55) to 455 CID (through '76), all with the same deck height, bore spacing and bearing spacing. That's about a 60% increase in displacement without changing the amount of space the engine fits in. In comparison, SBC goes from 262 to 400 CID, about a 50% increase. This of course, doesn't take into consideration, aftermarket "kits" for stroking. If it did, SBC would be higher (like the 434s), as would Pontiac (505).

That's all...

Jim

The NHRA and such groups say that a Big Block has to have off set valves , just like the valves on a BBC.

[Ztrain]

Dimensionally 326 thru 455 are the same.There fore,Pbody is correct.A Pontiac is a Pontiac.

Originally Posted by Ztrain

Dimensionally 326 thru 455 are the same.There fore,Pbody is correct.A Pontiac is a Pontiac.

What did you read that I was disproveing what P body said?
I like to say Pontiac has no Big Block, just big engines.

The reason Pontiac has no Big Block is because it has no off set valves, so says NHRA and such.
BBC

Pontiac

[MrPbody]

NHRA also considers the B/RB MOPARs as big blocks, and the FE Ford engines (390, 427, 428, etc.). They do not have canted valves. 351C is a "small block" and HAS canted valves. SB-2 (Chevy's current small block race engine) also has canted valves.

For the most part, the definition of "small block" versus "big block" is based on whether or not a specific manufacturer has more than one offering, in different size configurations. Ford, Chevy, MOPAR, Olds and Buick all have both big and small blocks. The Olds are more "tall deck" and "short deck", but have significant differences in the main and rod journal sizes as well. In the vernacular, they're called "small" and "big" blocks.
On the other hand, AMC and Pontiac only have one block size (external dimensions).
FWIW


Jim

I'm not sure if that law was just for PMD engines but thats how Nunzis told it to me.

And I know that those Dodge blocks use shaft mounted rockers so that even tosses a wrench into that.

[Ztrain]

The NHRA is one of the most "fullest of crap" organizations on earth.

My statement stands.

NHRA= No Hot Rods Allowed

[MrPbody]

Ztrain,

I understand your frustration. Dealing with a large organization of any kind can be a bureaucratic nightmare.

I must, however, point out, NHRA has more stringent rules and specifications than any other racing sanctioning body in drag racing. They also have smaller engines at the top levels than the "other" (IHRA). But NHRA cars are ALWAYS faster/quicker. This is not a credit to the sanctioning body, but it certainly is to the members participating.
At the "grass roots" level, IHRA has a larger following, and tends to draw more local racers to weekend events.
At the national level, there's no comparison. NHRA is "the bigs", where IHRA represents the "AAA" level.

Right here near Richmond, Virginia Motorsports Park (Dinwiddie), NHRA pulled their sanction about 8 years ago, when the local mentality rejected the idea that NHRA should pick the contractor to repair the poorly done track. The guy that lead the way to do a half-assed job, is now gone. The California contractor NHRA recommended has recently finished repairing the first 1/8 mile, and is now working on the high-end. NHRA's national tour will be back in Richmond for the Fall.
What this means, is we'll get to see FULL FIELDS (16 of each) of Top Fuel and F/C (nitro cars, not just alky), as well as all the Pro and Sportsman classes we've been missing the past years when the IHRA tour came around.

Personally, I can't wait! Getting into a "cloud" at a nitro race is one of the more exciting things a racing spectator can do. Maybe we'll get treated to a "kackle fest" (where they line up 20 or more AA fuelers and fire 'em all up at one time!).

Nothing's perfect, but NHRA is a class act (IMO).

Jim

(IMO)Ztrain it looks like the NHRA is more geared to people who have money.

The NHRA seems at times (depending on the track) to push out anybody with just a home grown street racer.

I also think putting a "Power Cap" is BS, whats the use of trying to go fast if they cap the HP? But i'm also a guy who thinks "Heads Up" is the only real kinda drag race, your drag raceing not raceing a reaction!

Sure in the past it has been safer to limit HP in cars by mixture and such but when you boil down a drag race to limitted ET times, it takes a future for fast(er) times.

I also know that limit HP also makes for more people raceiing, as no so many parts come apart, I know back in the late 80's mid 90's you allways seen an engine let go in top Fuel.

I think it needs to be revamped, little more freedom and more classes for "heads up" races.

Try running a stick with a fast car (over stock) with no driveshaft safty loop at Norwalk, tho it is safe, tec can only guess on how much HP your engine makes.

[Ztrain]

NHRA is pricing the common folk out.Nevermind stuff like T-stops,delay boxes and all that electronic B.S.-it should be outlawed.Make 'em so fast that the "win" light is at the bottom of the tree.And for that matter get rid of restrictor plates in NASBORE.If they are worried about fans getting hurt ,then pull the bleachers back.Let people race.

Norwalk(IHRA facility) is the best run track that i've been to.
The only thing they do that i don't like is they let machinists from Virginia thru the gate.

Right Jim?

Don't get me started with NASCAR, I hate it, they have had to change the rules over the last 10 years so many times because fans got pissed or not show up, or tune in.

That crap with points is stupid, you see a winner at the end, then they cut to the 12th place guy because he won some bigger deal with the way the points go.

What good is watching a race when you are limited on power? It's the same as go carts, and you know some of these guys are cheatting, if the al the power levels are the same why does "Joe Tools" car come in last?

You don't even have to back the people up, just build a better fence.

If I as running the show, any person that spins another on purpose they pay a fine and they are out for the rest of the year. That and "Draft buddies" and getting behind a guy just out of the draft spot to slow them down, and that BS stabbing and getting off the breaks to slow down the person behind you.

Some real Dicks in that sport, the biggest one drives the orange car, that Home Depot dork.

I think useing the delay boxes is cheating, also when you stall at the line to over heat anothers engine, thats cheating also.

Like I said also, the only kinda drag race is heads up raceing, and by god no Artic Cats should be allowed on a drag strip!

Also i'm sure the 8th mile was set up so that more money could be made by the track with more cars able to run, it's a buch of crap 1/4 or nothing.

If you like being enveloped in nitro you most likely have been in it to long, it can and will kill you, this is no "tuff guy" thing, that stuff will put you on, and in the ground.

[Ztrain]

and by god no Artic Cats should be allowed on a drag strip!

Now that is funny