Blow Head Gasket or bad Intake Valve?

[dbudworth]

I've been reading that a lot of people are having all kinds of problems with their coolant system on the 3.4L engine. Why the hell hasn't GM done something about this. I can't imagine what they pay out each year on just warranty work for this. Is there any way we can get GM to pay for the repairs if your vehicle is out of warranty. Our van only has 56K miles on it, that is ridiculous to have this serious of a problem already. Can I expect to have the transmission problems as well on a 2002 montana?

Our van has one of these problems though, but I don't know enough about the engine to determine which one it is. I finally got the lemon back in out garage tonight. It was parked about 10 miles from our house. Before I started it up, I checked the oil, it look fine, and no gunk in or around the oil cap. So I started it up, everything seem to look and run fine. No smoke or anything coming out the tailpipe. So I drove it as far as I could before the engine got too hot. When the temp gage got in the red zone, I pulled over and popped the hood. It was hissing pretty good and steam pouring out right below the power steering reservoir. Take a look at the pic to see exactly where the steam was coming out. Can someone give me a little insight as to what is wrong with our van. And when I get this fixed, should I expect more problems in the future and just dump the van for a different vehicle? Thanks in advance.
Dan

[dbudworth]

I just checked the oil cap this morning after driving it for like 5 miles before it got too hot, and now I'm seeing a very small amount of gray sludge on the bottom of the cap. More than likely to be a head gasket, huh?

[GTP Dad]

Actually this seems more like a lower intake manifold gasket issue rather than a head gasket. The head gasket would not really show up as water in the oil. Lower intake manifold gasket issues have been an ongoing problem with these engines for some time. Good Luck and Welcome to AF!

[dbudworth]

Thanks GTP Dad. So is this pretty difficult to fix for the average do-it-yourselfer? I really can't afford to shell out $1000+ to get this fixed.

[cdru]

I think it actually could be either. As GTP Dad said, the location would lend itself to be a intake leak. However, I wouldn't necessarily rule out a head gasket leak. It's also possible that the steam is forming further back and just drifting upwards that way.

On a scale of 1-10, I'd rate this a 7 or so. It's not real difficult, but there is significant amount of labor to get down to the gasket. A Haynes manual at a minimum is required for the correct procedure and specs. There are numerous threads regarding the procedure with hints and tips in it.

Total cost for the gasket and all the other things you should get in the process is under $200. If you don't want to do it yourself, the going dealer price is around $800, or up to 1/2 that if you go to an independent shop.

[dbudworth]

Thank you very much for the replies back. I've been doing some more reading on the internet and found out some people have been getting this fixed under the secret warranty or goodwill warranty (same thing). I think I'm going to see if it'll work for me first, if not, then I think I'll try to dig into it myself. Always up for a challenge, until I add more cost to myself in the long run. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again.

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by dbudworth

Thank you very much for the replies back. I've been doing some more reading on the internet and found out some people have been getting this fixed under the secret warranty or goodwill warranty (same thing). I think I'm going to see if it'll work for me first, if not, then I think I'll try to dig into it myself. Always up for a challenge, until I add more cost to myself in the long run. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again.

There is no secret warranty!
Some GM dealers can offer some relief by performing repairs under the "goodwill" policy set forth by GM.
The dealer must meet certain requirements.
Also another issue that comes into play with the offer of goodwill is your loyalty to GM and the dealer.
If you do not have a service history with GM or a rapport with the dealer don't expect much assistance.
The repair procedure is a fairly straight foreward one, but there are some areas that can get a DIY into some serious and expensive trouble

[Chameleon-kat]

Hhmm water pump is right there also isn't it?

[dbudworth]

No, I don't believe it is the water pump. I jacked the van up yesterday and started it up. There was a constant stream of coolant pouring down the back side of the block. I was looking up from the back of the engine, right behind the passenger side front wheel. It was coming down the block right next to the belt idler pulley. I had my neighbor take a look at it and he thinks it is the head gasket. Still hard to say because you really can't see where the source is coming from for sure. It still could be coming from the intake gasket and running down looking like it is the head gasket.

[cdru]

Originally Posted by Chameleon-kat

Hhmm water pump is right there also isn't it?

Yes, that is what the pully that a portion of the circle includes.

You can purchase a UV tracer dye at Napa for a few bucks. Toss it in your coolant and run for a few minutes. Your pretty sure it's either a head or the intake gasket. In order to get to the head you have to remove the intake, so start off with the assumption that it's the intake gasket. After you've removed the alt, upper manifold, rear valve cover and PS pump, that should give you a much clearer view as to where the problem may be at. Look for the areas with the dye. You can also buy/borrow a coolant pressure tester at Autozone. Pressurizing the system while you have a clearer view may also point to where the problem is at.

Good luck.

[dbudworth]

Is there any special tools that are required to replace either one (head or intake gasket). I'll have to go out and purchase a torque wrench and some torx sockets, but other than that, can anyone think of any other special tools?

[GTP Dad]

You shouldn't need anything other than what you have stated. This is a time consuming job but not difficult. One tip however, make sure you label everything when you remove it so that you can put everything back where it belongs.

[cdru]

You shouldn't need any torx sockets. Everything is standard hex, so regular sockets will work. I would highly suggest getting a 10mm crows-foot for the 4 outside intake manifold bolts. Due to the way it's cast, they are hard to properly tighten down to spec.

In addition to labeling everything, I always have a box of ziplock baggies handy. As I remove a component, I label the bag and put all the nuts/bolts/brackets/etc in the bag. Keeps everything nicely organized and I don't have to wonder which bolt goes where.

[dbudworth]

Here is an update for you all. We called GM directly about this, telling them that this is a very well know problem and that GM is aware of this because they redesigned the intake gasket in a later model. And told them that this does no good for us on our '02 model. They told us to take it to the dealership to get it checked out to find out for sure what the problem is, and depending on what it is, "maybe" we can cover it 50/50 with you. That is BS, I'm not going to settle with 50/50 for a very well know problem that they are aware of. They are already admitting to be 50% at fault. If GM doesn't stand behind their own products, what incentive is there for the general public to keep buying GM products? They wonder why they are hurting!!!

Depending on what the diagnosis is, if it is the head gasket, I don't think I'll attempt it, but if it is the intake gasket, I can tackle that one with help from a family member that is a mechanic if he has the time. It'll still be cheaper in the long run. We'll put up a fight with GM first. I'll keep you all posted on what happens.

[cdru]

You will be beating a dead horse if you try to fight it. Feel free to, but GM doesn't budge usually.