Isolator Bolt Fix

[frostie]

I am thinking about doing the P0171/P0174 fix, but have a couple of questions:

- why do I only get CELs when the engine is cold? If I wait until the engine is warm and then clear them, they don't come back until the engine gets cold again.
- how long would this fix take a novice to perform? I have done minor work like changing brake pads/shoes and regapping spark plugs, but never any engine work.

Thanks.

[wiswind]

I would guess that, in your case, the engine warms up and the expansion is working in your favor....for now. I have not done the job....as I have a '96...which has a different intake. I would guess, if you print out and follow the steps in this link....that you will be fine....
This is not my post...but the post of another member who did a great job of documenting his work.
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

[jkeaton]

Originally Posted by frostie

I am thinking about doing the P0171/P0174 fix, but have a couple of questions:

- why do I only get CELs when the engine is cold? If I wait until the engine is warm and then clear them, they don't come back until the engine gets cold again.
- how long would this fix take a novice to perform? I have done minor work like changing brake pads/shoes and regapping spark plugs, but never any engine work.

Thanks.

I just did this repair on my 2001. I am a "backyard" mechanic, I do most of the repairs myself, but I am not an expert. I did my research on this forum, there is plenty of good information about this. I was able to complete the isolator bolt/intake runner gasket replacement in about an hour. I also used sensor-safe RTV to secure the baffle to the top half of the intake. I never had any codes, just the annoying knocking. The part that took the longest was waiting for the RTV to cure (@24 hours). I was able to remove/replace the top intake half without having to remove the cowl also, I just loosened up the bolts holding the cowl in place enough so I could lift it up about 1/2", that's all it took. (I did remove the wiper arms, though). You should be able to handle this repair fairly easily. Make sure you have 8mm. and 10mm deep sockets, and don't get the intake bolts mixed up, they need to go back in the exact same place they came out of. A torque wrench would be nnice,, but I have read confusion on exactly what the isolator bolts should be torqued to. I just had tightened them and gave them a good turn with the wrench to snug them down. You can also replace the intake runner gaskets without having to remove the throttle linkage and stuff, just lift it up wnough to see/feel underneath. Good luck....

[Mackab]

Originally Posted by jkeaton

You can also replace the intake runner gaskets without having to remove the throttle linkage and stuff, just lift it up wnough to see/feel underneath.

Please tell me more about the IMRC gaskets you changed. I did the TSB but did not change the IMRC gaskets, and maybe I should. Does the whole deal need to be broken down again through the lower intake? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[phil-l]

Frostie -

I recently did the isolator bolt fix on my 2000 Windstar LX 3.8.

It took me about 3.5 hours, from beginning to end. I spent extra time cleaning things up (EGR ports, plastic manifold sections, etc.) and worked cautiously to avoid breaking anything (I'm wary of plastic manifolds).

I was able to remove the entire plastic manifold without removing any cowl pieces, but I have skinny arms (it helps on this job). I didn't have noise problems with the intake baffle, so I didn't RTV it in place.

I replaced all of the gaskets recommded in the leckemby.net procedure.

While I also replaced the valve cover with the updated design, I believe the original cover can be modified to perform like the updated version. See my comments in this thread:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=476357

[bruker]

I'd recommend you read the following link, It'll walk you through the entire process.
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

[garync1]

I did my isolator bolts repair last month. Becarefull not to over torque the bolts I broke one and was unable to drill it out. if any problems occur I am going to have to pull the whole thing out and go to a machine shop to save my threadings.. so far I made a long trip over Thankgiving and put about 1000 miles round trip and had no problems so I only have seven isolator botls torque down. I did use a mod to keep the seal around the intake closed. its working fine and I dont think I will have a problem before I get rid of it in a few years.. i have a 2001 with 80,000+ miles on it. I replaced my upper intake manifold the baffle was cracked and the new one comes with baffle bonded to the plastic instead of snaped on.. I also replaced the upper intake port seal/ gaskets 6 in number 8 isolator bolts 7 on mine one broke. If you upper intake is ok it will run you about 76.00 or so for the port seal/gaskets and isolator bolts add 150.00 if the upper intake needs replacing. Its better than the 600.00 the dealer wanted to charge me. excepts for the scare the broken isolator bolt did to me. but i figures if a water pump bolt brakes and I have had many. a little RTV sealer and the other bolts may compensate for it. IT DID.. keep my fingers cross... good luck...

[DRW1000]

I too did the reapir myself. I followed the instructions provided in the link above. Ensure that you have all parts on hand and of course do use a torque wrench and set it correctly.

I am a backyard mechanic myself (although with about 25 years of experience) and I found it to be time consuming but fairly straightforward. You might want to take the opportunity to change your spark plugs at the same time.

[1999windstar]

I know this topic has been discussed alot but I have a question. The ford dealer here sold me the parts at cost and he said that the intake should be hot tanked before putting it back together. Have any of you looked at the inside of the intake. Do you think it needs cleaned? We have a 1999 with 133k . It stated the problem last summer. It still runs pretty goo except for a small vibration in the front . I got the codes read at autozone. It said 171 and 304 .Then I found this site. It has really helped. Hope you can answer my question.

[bruker]

The intake plenum on mine was a mess (oil & carbon) I just used throttle body cleaner and lots of paper towels to clean it.

[phil-l]

Keep in mind that the upper intake manifold is plastic - I believe the chemicals used in traditional "hot tank" cleaning methods are only designed for metal castings.

My upper intake was pretty messy - but no problem to clean up with spray intake/carb cleaner.

[1999windstar]

Iam talking about the lower intake manifold. The dealer sent the seals for it and he said it really needs hot tanked had anyone taken it off to see what it looks like? (on a van with 133K on it)

[rodeo02]

A good parts washer soaking would be the ideal cleaning for the aluminum LIM, but all you really need to be concerned about is cleaning the 6 EGR jets and the 6 secondary throttles. You can do that with the LIM in place.

Joel

[1999windstar]

Ok thanks for the help. I will see what it looks like when I get it off.

[DRW1000]

Originally Posted by frostie

I am thinking about doing the P0171/P0174 fix, but have a couple of questions:

- why do I only get CELs when the engine is cold? If I wait until the engine is warm and then clear them, they don't come back until the engine gets cold again.
- how long would this fix take a novice to perform? I have done minor work like changing brake pads/shoes and regapping spark plugs, but never any engine work.

Thanks.

I am curious as to what you mean by the above statement. Theoretically the engine gets cold every night. The codes will come back after a few drive cycles where the faults are detected and a drive cycle by definition starts from a cold engine.

Are you perhaps refering to the outside air temperature? Normally this sort of leak does cause more problems when the air is cold (and the engine metal is colder too). This could be due to the expansion coeficients but I always thought it was becuase the engine was not "choked" as much as it should be due to extra air caused by the leak and the fact that it is more difficult to start a cold engine.