Nietzsche

[Dustin_S]

I'm just now starting to read this guys works. Anyone else familiar with his writing? I particularily like his ideas about the conflict between man-animal and man-intelligence.

[Oz]

Hmm...I'm intrigued...tell me more Dustin

[Colbadol]

whenever im hangin out at BarnesnNoble i often glance at Nietzsche's Antichrist book. It was apparently the last thing he wrote before he had a psychotic episode and became a vegetable. in no many words.
it talks about how any stupid yokel can be saved by religion. and how bad that is. i cant really describe. havent read it. but

now to quote a neat TShirt:
"God is dead" - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead" - God

[Dustin_S]

yeah, I don't necessarily agree with Neitszche's views ( I believe in God and think he is very much alive) but I still find some of his other "thinks" (as dr seuss would say) very interesting!

I wish i could tell you more but his writings are fairly advanced. I don't profess to totally understand him.

Basically the man-animal/man-intelligence thing discusses the fact that man is two distinctly seperate entities- an animal that operates on instinct and reflex, and an intelligence inside that animal the operates on morality, logic, and thought.

To the animal half, concepts like morality, logic, compassion, subservience, kindness, and other such ideals are alien, and unknown. When animals are confronted with the unknown, they are nervous at best. At worst, they fear and hate the unknown. Thus, morals and the others are feared and hated by the human animal.

On the other hand, the human-intelligence is disgusted at the human-animals wants and needs- the urge to reproduce as often and with as many people as necessary to continue the species, the need to be aggressive, the need to be the alpha male, the need to be the best, the need to ensure the best future by hoarding the best land, best food, best women, etc...all of this disgusts the human-intelligence.

Thus, with two halves so entirely out of balance, the whole entity that is "man" cannot achieve the greatness he is entitled to. Thus, Nietzsche states, when a generation of humanity is born, evolved in such a way as to balance both halves of the equation, they will wipe out the "inferior" humans and start over as an entirely different (and better) civilization.

That's how I understood it. Maybe Nietzsche was talking about babies being born with eye lasers and telekinetic powers and super dense spring-loaded muscles capable of lifting forty times their own body weight....but whatever. Just my take on things.

[GForce957]

Im pretty sure Nietzsche was talking about the X-men

[Dustin_S]

Andromeda has a race of modified humans called Neitzchians, but they're far more animalistic...living in prides, taking multiple mates, very warlike...not much balance there.

[2strokebloke]

Nietzsche was a pretty interesting (and insane) fellow. His basic philosphy that existing moral systems are flawed and arbitrary is probably correct though. His idea that God is dead and we have killed him is also mostly correct. Religion is more or less a social thing these days - people go to church, flash their bibles, blab about God - but very few actually really believe in their religion, which was part of what Nietzsche was trying to say with that statement. God is dead because people don't believe in God anymore.
Nietzsche was in this sense also in favour of discarding religion (for they are arbitrary moral systems) and thought we should be responsible for setting up our own system of beliefs. In my opinion though, people are too stupid to this, and obviously will continue to rely on old systems, even if they don't really believe in them.
I haven't read hardly any of his writings, as of yet I haven't read any of his books all the way through, but more or less he had some pretty interesting, and sometimes even some pretty well reasoned things to say.

[Dustin_S]

that casts a whole new light.

didn't he also say something along the lines of: "And God said, "I am the one true god" and all the other dieties laughed themselves to death!"

[Oz]

Ozzie has some reading to do. Where should I start?

[Dustin_S]

LOL! I'd guess you could start with any of his books. I started with The Antichrist, Curse on Christianity. In it, he tears at christianity and calls it a religion designed for the weak and unhealthy among us. Strange reading for a religious guy such as me, but as another famous philosopher said, "know thine enemy." And I kinda agree with him in some respects. If what is posted above was true and Nietzsche really was attacking "Corporate Christianity" than this book is spot on.

I'm not sure what his complete bibliography is (our library only has three of his books) and I keep forgetting to wiki-search him. maybe I'll go do that now....

[Moppie]

I recommend you start with "Beyond Good and Evil".
As far as Philosophy is concerned its realitivly easy to read.


The Trick with reading Nietzche is to remember not to take everything he says to seriously, he's a big fan of Metaphores, and likes to use words in unusaly ways that are easily mis-interupted.
He certianly wasn't insane, he just had a view of humanity that in his time was simply far to advanced.
Much of what he said have infact become fundlemental truths in pschology, although you have to be reasonably familiar with both to see it.

And of course his Morality would be considered quite radical by anyone raised on a traditional monotheistic "western" one.
He basicly strips away our distinction between "good" and "evil" and exposes them as creations of the humanity, and there for meaningless from an objective view point.
He then breaks morality down into its most basic form, the actions of and thoughts of a single person, and proposes his idea of that single, perfect person, who, if in a group with others would create a moral and civilised society.

He basicly believes that our current fasicnation with "good vs evil" is holding our development back, and we can not advance as intelligent beings untill we get over it, move beyond it.

One note, If your going to read his works, only read Translations done by: Walter Kaufmann.
Because of the way Nietzche use's language much of it does not translate directly from his native German.
Forunatly Walter Kaufmann spent his whole life learning and understanding his work in German, before translating it into English in a way that was retained the orginal meanings.

[Dustin_S]

I rescind my earlier advice and put forth this new nugget of wisdom...

Listen to moppie.

[2strokebloke]

Hmmm. I have also heard that most translations are pretty spotty.
But I don't know - somebody who grows a giant mustache for the purpose of intimidating people is insane enough in my book.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

....somebody who grows a giant mustache for the purpose of intimidating people is insane enough in my book.

Says the man with a passion for Trabants.......

[2strokebloke]

I bet you couldn't say that to my face if I grew an imposing mustache.