Problems with my 94 talon sohc

[Stingar]

I bought this vehicle pretty cheap, knowing it needed work. Most of the problems I've fixed, however there are 3 remaining ones I'm having problems with.

1st (and the one that is irritating me the most) is the car is hard to start. This started to occur after I took it in to have a new flex pipe attached. It takes about 15-30 attempts before the engine turns over, the first 3 turn over successes, the engine revs to 1400, drops to 500, stutters and then dies. When I press on the gas, the rpm's drop instead of rise, causing it to die faster. After I get the engine to stay running, everything is fine except the rpms then idle high (1200) once the engine is warm, but stays around 850 while still cold and warming up. If i adjust the throttle to lower the idle to 850 when warm, the engine wont turn over at all in the mornings. After I have driven it though, as long as I don't let it sit for 6+ hours, the car starts right up immediately. The longer I let it sit (while at work or over night) it again goes through what I mentioned above. I've replaced plugs, wires, battery, filters, all fuses, it's still a good starter and alternator, belts are new. A mechanic reset my emission settings saying they were off, but that didn't help. I've read that it could be my ECU, or my air control, or a compression problem. Before I go spending too much more (already dropped 2k into trying to find why the car is doing this) I was hoping someone on here might be able to help. I have read through many of the already existing questions, and found a few that were labeled as a hot-start(?) but the symptoms were the reverse of what I'm getting.

2nd, and this might be in part with the above problem, when I'm driving over 70mph, I'll sometimes hear a slight whine. It sounds similar to what a turbo would sound like when it is about to die, however there is no turbo on this car.

3rd, there is a very slight knocking sound that can be heard when I am actively accelerating or reving. When I am coasting the knocking isn't there, or when slowly easing on the gas it is also not there. It's not loud, and not actually a knocking sound per se, but it is the only description i have for it, other then to describe it like the sound you'd hear from an idling go-kart engine or boat motor. I read that clogged lifters could make the sound, or irregular firing. It sounds like it is near the no.1 cylinder, but not actually in the cylinder.

Any help? Thanks and sorry for the novel-length. I'm new at rebuilding a car and engine from crap condition to road machine.

(Also quick question, is it possible to replace the 1.8 sohc in the 94 with a newer dohc/turbo engine? Or would the mountings not match? I'm looking at both a 95, a 99 and a 01 block for possible replacements, but not looking to replace the tran if possible.)
Thanks

[mojosvt]

Well, I am not going to be much help, but wanted to bring the topic to the top. I am having the EXACT same problems with my 96 talon. hoping i can fix the problem rather than ditch the car.

Originally Posted by Stingar

I bought this vehicle pretty cheap, knowing it needed work. Most of the problems I've fixed, however there are 3 remaining ones I'm having problems with.

1st (and the one that is irritating me the most) is the car is hard to start. This started to occur after I took it in to have a new flex pipe attached. It takes about 15-30 attempts before the engine turns over, the first 3 turn over successes, the engine revs to 1400, drops to 500, stutters and then dies. When I press on the gas, the rpm's drop instead of rise, causing it to die faster. After I get the engine to stay running, everything is fine except the rpms then idle high (1200) once the engine is warm, but stays around 850 while still cold and warming up. If i adjust the throttle to lower the idle to 850 when warm, the engine wont turn over at all in the mornings. After I have driven it though, as long as I don't let it sit for 6+ hours, the car starts right up immediately. The longer I let it sit (while at work or over night) it again goes through what I mentioned above. I've replaced plugs, wires, battery, filters, all fuses, it's still a good starter and alternator, belts are new. A mechanic reset my emission settings saying they were off, but that didn't help. I've read that it could be my ECU, or my air control, or a compression problem. Before I go spending too much more (already dropped 2k into trying to find why the car is doing this) I was hoping someone on here might be able to help. I have read through many of the already existing questions, and found a few that were labeled as a hot-start(?) but the symptoms were the reverse of what I'm getting.

2nd, and this might be in part with the above problem, when I'm driving over 70mph, I'll sometimes hear a slight whine. It sounds similar to what a turbo would sound like when it is about to die, however there is no turbo on this car.

3rd, there is a very slight knocking sound that can be heard when I am actively accelerating or reving. When I am coasting the knocking isn't there, or when slowly easing on the gas it is also not there. It's not loud, and not actually a knocking sound per se, but it is the only description i have for it, other then to describe it like the sound you'd hear from an idling go-kart engine or boat motor. I read that clogged lifters could make the sound, or irregular firing. It sounds like it is near the no.1 cylinder, but not actually in the cylinder.

Any help? Thanks and sorry for the novel-length. I'm new at rebuilding a car and engine from crap condition to road machine.

(Also quick question, is it possible to replace the 1.8 sohc in the 94 with a newer dohc/turbo engine? Or would the mountings not match? I'm looking at both a 95, a 99 and a 01 block for possible replacements, but not looking to replace the tran if possible.)
Thanks

[Stingar]

I've just replaced the fuel filter and cleaned out my fuel injectors. I'm wondering if maybe my fuel pump could be going bad, and if that might be what is causing the problem. Someone suggested my starter, however the car starts fine no matter how many times I turn it off and restart it until it sits for over 6 hours, I could even turn it off and let it sit for 4 and half hours, go out and it will start fine, but after 6 hours, it hesitates to start.

I'm also starting to attribute the rattling/knocking sound to a possible head and/or gasket, this is only because when I started the car this morning, I had white smoke, so I'm guessing it would either be due to the change in fuel to high octane (doubtful) with the fuel additive, or that I have coolant leaking into my engine.

any opinions on any of these entries or ideas if these above could be causing the problems I first listed?

Thank you.

[gthompson97]

run a compression check. is your coolant level constantly going down when you drive it? it may not go down in one day, but over a couple days/weeks. also pull off the water housing cap (where you put coolant in) and see if it's bubbling. if there are bubbles coming up then you probably have a blown headgasket.

[Stingar]

I took the car it to have the compression checked (since I lack the tools), the mechanic said I had good compression. Over the last 2 weeks I've not noticed my coolant levels dropping, however the first day after my oil change (about 45 days past) the overflow cap on my hose came lose and I had almost all my coolant leaked out (while at work). Other then that, once I refilled it hasn't lowered any.

I'm honestly lost, a pal of mine says it sounds like I am getting moisture in my line, possible water in my feul line, I've tried using heet to resolve that.

I've thought to take it to Autozone to see if they could pull anycodes from the ECu, but they tell me they can't pull OBD1 codes, only OBDII. So I'm gonna have to take it to the dealer to get the codes checked.

What percentage could I expect the problems with starting being related either to Starter, or ECU?

Thanks for the help!

[gthompson97]

probably 5% the starter and 20% the ecu. have you changed the fuel filter lately? do a regular tune-up on it and see if that helps anything. fuel filter, air filter, plugs, etc.

have the mechanic give you those compression numbers that he checked and post them on here, i'm just wondering what your running for compression numbers.

also when the car is running, pull off water neck cap and see if you can see bubbles in it.

[Stingar]

I wasn't able to get the compression numbers, yet.. but I did check the line with the water capo off, and there were no bubbles.

I've come to the conclusion the starting problem I have is either a fuel pump or fuel injection system not performing. If I pump my gas pedal constantly (about 30+ times) before I attempt to start the car, the engine tries to start sounding like it is getting fuel, if I don't pump the gas, it just sounds like the starter turning and no engine response. As long as I pump the gas between starting tries, the engine responds each time. So since it requires fuel, air, and spark to get the engine going, and I am getting air, and the spark works, it must be the fuel I'm having problems with.

The question now, is to find if it is the pump, the injection system, or the ECU that is behind this.

If nothing else, I could just replace all three, but I'd like to be able to find how to determine which is causing the problem.

[Stingar]

Car wont start at all this morning, engine tries to, but won't catch, just shutters a few times and then stops responding, the starter cranks though. Check engine light is on, but I have no way of reading the codes, since everyplace (autozone also) says they can only read OBDII codes. Dealer wanted to charge astronomical amounts just to read codes. Can't see how hooking the device to a car and writing down the codes on a piece of paper can cost over hundred dollars. Talk about scammers.

Anyway, I'm gonna just buy a replacement ECU from eBay i guess and install it once it arrives. I hope that will fix the problem.