RSX obsolete...

[RSX-S777]

A guy at work gave me the new Civic brochure this morning and it's depressing. Si has K20(z3?) w/197hp and 8k redline. i-vtec AND a lsd (argh). Optional navi and 18" rims. MP3 hookup etc, etc...

I know we've discussed this before- but I just don't know how the RSX is going to fit into this new lineup. Anyway....I don't know if I should be impressed that Honda is rolling out a pretty competetive little compact in the Civic or extremely pissed that we had to pay so much and have so little to show for it now...

Still using those goddamn Michelins though on the Si.

[Cliffnotes69]

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

A guy at work gave me the new Civic brochure this morning and it's depressing. Si has K20(z3?) w/197hp and 8k redline. i-vtec AND a lsd (argh). Optional navi and 18" rims. MP3 hookup etc, etc...

I know we've discussed this before- but I just don't know how the RSX is going to fit into this new lineup. Anyway....I don't know if I should be impressed that Honda is rolling out a pretty competetive little compact in the Civic or extremely pissed that we had to pay so much and have so little to show for it now...

Still using those goddamn Michelins though on the Si.

Just looked at the honda website. It really bothers me that they're giving the SI a LSD, but our RSX's never came with one, even in 06. The 18" wheels would have been nice too. I like the SI, but I think the RSX still has better styling, exterior and interior. I'm not sure if it's worth $4000, but I don't care much for the SI's styling. Does the SI handle better than the RSX? I hope that the 07 RSX revamp rumor is true, otherwise I don't see any reason for Honda to keep the RSX around, especially without a LSD.

You know what the worst thing of all is? the SI has a f***ing armrest. WTF Honda?

[mason_RsX]

Damn...I had heard that the RSX is now the outcast in the Honda/Acura family

and logically, the Si cannibalizes the RSX in terms of sales...and it doesn't sound like their in any hurry to remake the RSX...cause all the rumors sound pretty fabricated

Either way either the RSX is gonna come back in the near future bigger, badder and ready to kill its competition...or its going to fade into the sunset, the lil sports car that could

[Schister66]

if its any consolation, the RSX is a lot nicer looking....

[mmont0]

Originally Posted by Cliffnotes69

Just looked at the honda website.

Um, thanks a lot! I had to go look. I already knew that it had all those features, but I didn't know you could get the Nav system in it for under $22k MSRP! Now I'm 99.999999% sure that the RSX is not going to stay around. I mean look at the writing on the wall:

Si $21740 | RSX-S ~$24k
2.0 K20Z3 | 2.0 K20A2
197 hp | 201 hp
140 ftlb | 139 ftlb
LSD | No LSD
CAI | No CAI
rl @8000 | rl @8100
cr 11:1 | cr 11:1
P215/45 R17 | 17's
dr 4.765:1 | dr 4.77:1
EPA 23/32 | EPA 23/31
13.1 gal premium | 13.2 gal premium
7 speaker system | 7 speaker system
NAV system | No NAV system

My bet is that the RSX is on the way out for 2007. If they do develop a new engine and model after that, I'll have to seriously think about trading in the '03. I don't think the RSX will be able to compete without a major upgrade and I haven't seen or heard anything to that effect. I do like the Si styling a bit more than the RSX, though. Yes you can call me a traitor! If I had to choose between the two I'd rather pay less AND get quite a few more features with the Si. Just think of what mods you can put in for the extra $4k! I wonder if the new rims fit on an Si?

What's really funny is that a pre '06 Honda Civic EX parked next to me today and I could hardly tell the difference between the two looking from the front. If someone who didn't know much about cars looked at them you would swear they were the same automobiles!

[RSX-S777]

I think the exterior styling is better for sure, but the Civic interior- the two-tiered dash, central tach, the sound system, etc is pretty nice. But at the very least we have leather going for us.

And yeah, I'm really confused and pissed about the 18s, suspension and especially the lsd. What the hell are they thinking? Way to screw Type S owners who shelled out good money for performance- it seems like they have it all backwards. Overall I'd be willing to bet it can outperform the RSX in the twisties. And imagine the numbers with a few bolt ons.

And mmonto- I'll join you in the traitor section. I'm ready to say f*ck Honda...not progressive enough to compete with most popular sport models, just progressive enough to eat themselves alive.

[mmont0]

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

I think the exterior styling is better for sure, but the Civic interior- the two-tiered dash, central tach, the sound system, etc is pretty nice. But at the very least we have leather going for us.

And yeah, I'm really confused and pissed about the 18s, suspension and especially the lsd. What the hell are they thinking? Way to screw Type S owners who shelled out good money for performance- it seems like they have it all backwards. Overall I'd be willing to bet it can outperform the RSX in the twisties. And imagine the numbers with a few bolt ons.

If I sell my '03 with 25k miles, according to edmunds, I can get $17,296. That's only ~4k away from a brand new Si. NOT!

I was OK when I found out it had an LSD. But when I saw all the other stuff on the website, I was a bit disappointed. Especially when they throw in a navigation system for less than the RSX price!

[Moppie]

Hot versions of the Civic have co-existed along side the Integra since both models shared the market place.
And in only one generation was the Integra ever the faster car.
The 92-96 Integra Type R was faster than the fastest Civic at the time, the SiR II.
But that of course changed when the EK Type R Civic came out.
Prior to that the XSi and RSi Integras had used the same enigne as the much lighter and more agile (hence faster) SiR Civic and SiR CRX (which was even faster again) and then before that the fast Integra, Civic, CRX, models had all used the ZC engine, and again the Integra was the slowest.

Its only been in the limited American and British markets that the Integra has been given a performanc e edge over the Civic, largely because of the Civic image as a slow economy car because of its small size (the Acura name isn't totaly relevent, but again was an image thing).

This all changed in the UK when the EP Type R Civic started to be manufactored there, and so came on the market at a very good price.

Now, 30 years after the First truely hot Civic was produced the (EB based RS in 1975) a truely hot Civic is making it way to the US.
The US market is finnaly catching up with the rest of the world, a world that has allowed the Integra and Civic to co-exist for 20 years.

[RSX-S777]

^That's true, but it's a strange marketing strategy. I suppose assholes like me who pay that much more just for leather seats and a plastic "A" make it work. In this case it's just not that much more of an incentive to shell out the extra cash. I suppose to be fair it does keep customers loyal to the Honda brand BUYING new cars on a regular basis to try and keep up with the latest and best. Personally, I'm more inclined to buy a 6 cyl or factory turbo 4 and leave all this paltry scrambling over 5 extra hp, navi and LSDs behind. I love Honda, but I'll be damned if I'm going to make lateral moves to pick up morsels or pay more for less.

[94SolGrl]

Not trying to dog the RSX's at all, but I agree with Mason. For honda to release the new Si on the world is basically them committing suicide with the RSX. Or so it would seem, anyways.

Only way for them to save it is to release the Type R on the US, and I'm sure there's not a soul who would complain about that.

And when you get technical in terms of resale and stuff, the RSX *does* have the Acura badge going for it. Acuras almost always hold their value better than Hondas, just because 90% of Americans are snobs. That's why we have the luxury lines in the first place (Infinity, Lexus, Acura, etc). The question that only time will tell is if the Acura badge will hold its value enough to keep people buying the, IMHO underpowered RSX. I mean, think about it.

Civic Si: First appearance is around 1992ish, with the Si hatch. D16z6, putting out about 115whp. Woo. Now, it's putting out 197, and has made HUGE improvements.

DA Integra GSR: B17a1 if I'm correct... approx 140whp. Now putting out 201. From 94-2001 the integra did not change as far as numbers go. Type R was putting out 190ish, GSR 180ish, etc. From the integra to the RSX, it seems like Honda really had the chance to make something AWESOME. The K series engines are proven to respond well to modifications, and with the trend moving towards factory aftermarket performance (read: Scions, for example, can be had with AEM intakes and DC exhausts from the factory), Honda really had a chance to set the mark. Why not release some Mugen goodies in the US? Why not make a factory turbo kit available? Suspension upgrades beyond the stiffer springs found on the type S?

Basically, Honda had a chance to do something great with the RSX, and they fell on their face. They basically made an integra with new sheet metal. While the RSX technically is an integra, why does the civic get all the glory? Some people argue that the civic is the longest import production car in history, from 71 to 06 (and by the way I'm surprised Honda isn't doing a 35th anniversary something. Lord knows rustangs played it up enough). But the DC integra (94-01) is the longest running unchanged chassis in Honda history. They change the civic every 3-4 years.

Basically, I just can't understand why Honda is paying so much attention to the Civic Si when they should be focusing on the RSX/Integra... The Civic Si will sell itself with its name alone. Put your efforts into making the RSX a truly badass machine, Honda!

And I'll go trotting back to the del Sol forum now. Peace!

[mmont0]

Originally Posted by Moppie

Hot versions of the Civic have co-existed along side the Integra since both models shared the market place.
And in only one generation was the Integra ever the faster car.

Very true, but the first generation Integras never looked like a Civic. The second generation Integras (RSX), are just a "modified" version of a Civic(<'06). Just take a look at the styling of both and you'll see they are not very different. This difference in styling is what kept the Integra alive for the 14 or so years they've been around.

You might be right on another point that you allude to. They have changed the styling on the Civics this year and the reason might be to make the RSX to look less and less like a Civic. Using your train of thought, this factor might just keep the RSX alive.

I'm still dissapointed, though, at the options that you can get for less. I don't like to pay extra for badging of a car. I'd rather pay for extras rather than namesake. Apparently, just because it's an Acura, it doesn't make it a luxury automobile anymore. They should have, at the very least, put the nav system in the '05 RSX and left it out of the Si. That's a luxury feature that you can't find on the entry model Acura but you can get it in the entry level Honda!

I can't wait to see what the RSX is going to look like in the near future!

[kingpinn]

hey the new si trany withlsd would go in to your rsx's right if its a k trans the splines should be the same number right? i know its alot of money im just thinking aloud thats all

[mmont0]

Originally Posted by kingpinn

hey the new si trany withlsd would go in to your rsx's right if its a k trans the splines should be the same number right? i know its alot of money im just thinking aloud thats all

You're probably right, but I personally wouldn't go through the hassle of putting one in the RSX if I can buy an Si for less.

[daveersx-s]

But is there someone who know's what acura is preparing for 2007??

[RSX-S777]

The design team leader at Honda Motors.

I could take a wild stab. Another NA 4 cylinder with 3-5 extra horsepower and 3 new exterior colors...rock on.