Firmer Shifts Please

[DANZIGS]

I own a 89 caprice 305 T.B.I., th200 4r tranny with a 2.73 diff. I like the car and I'm happy with the performance but I hate the soft sluggish shifts it produces. I'm debating between a shift improver kit from B&M racing or a billet pro servo from JET. The servo is a little bit more than than the shift kit but I'm willing to pay because it seems to be a lot easier and less messy to install. My question is will it give me the firmer and stronger shifts for the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts that it says? Has anybody ever used the bigger servo before and been happy with the results? Or should I just do the shift kit. I'm looking for an easier route to a firmer shift out of the old slush box if possible. Thanks for any help.

[CD Smalley]

Why don't you start by adjusting your TV cable and see if that firms things up enough for you?

[DANZIGS]

I actually did adjust the cable to give me a bit of a later shift. It did help but very little.

[CAPRICE LIFE]

ill go wit tha shift kick hands down..try all stall torque converter for quicker lauches as well

[etc.]

If I were in your postion I would first contact Alvin at www.pcmforless.com and have him burn you a custom chip to suit your needs. He can program the chip for firmer shifts, remove top speed limiter, power program (92 octane) and much more. Its not messy and you will be done in 15 minutes.

-etc.

[MT-2500]

Etc. ^^^
A chip will not change the trans shift on it. It is not a computer controled trans.
Unless it is slipping between shifts on a 200 trans the best thing is to live with it. They are just automatics not racing machines.
MT

[etc.]

I got my info off Bryans and Alvins web site, which has a chip available for 1987- 1993 b-bodies, my fault for not knowing the 200 wasn't an electric controlled transmission.

"They are just automatics not racing machines."

Who says firmer shifts are only for "racing machines"? Faster engagement means less wear on the friction materials.

[MT-2500]

A automatic is made to shift smooth not ram into gear.
A hard or fast shift does not mean squat.
The best shift is one that you can barley feel it shift.
A automatic is made to slip some.
That is why the clutch plates run in trans fluid.
MT

[silicon212]

MT - it is a proven fact that by firming up the shift, you reduce wear on the transmission by eliminating that slop on the shifts.

There are situations in real life where in traffic, a "non-racing" car is called upon to undertake some punishment - take for example collision avoidance - and it's nice to know that I'm not going to slip the forward clutch off of my 700R4 right into the pan. Besides, I like the feel of a crisp shift vs. a soft one.

--

You can only change the shift electronically with a 4L60E - a TH700-R4/4L60 or TH200-4R can only be modified mechanically. A trans tech once told me that on the TH700-R4/4L60 you can firm up the 1-2 shift by reversing the 1-2 accumulator piston - I've not tried it so I can't tell you if this actually works - however breakage of the 1-2 accumulator piston spring is fairly common and this will also lead to a soft shift. If this is the case, replace it with a white spring (stock on a Caprice is purple) for firmer shifts. If the clutches are worn out, the only thing you can do to it is rebuild it. If there's a lot of varnish on the dipstick when you check the fluid, that's an indication the transmission is worn out. The varnish resembles a light gray sludge coating.

[MT-2500]

The trans clutches are designed to have some slip when the clutch pack engages and releases.
No problem as long as the slip is not excessive and does not slip after the clutch pack engages.
Soft or slow shifts are more of a result of valve body timing.
One clutch pack disengaging before the other clutch pack engages.
When I rebuilt trans I always droped the shift kits in the trash can and tryed to set up the trans so you could not feel the shift from one gear to the next.
A harsh shift or a shift kit shift is a lot harder on a trans than a soft shift.
You start jerking it and it will start jerking the teeth off of the clutch plates and the splines in the trans and also the case on some trans.
MT

[400wagon]

Originally Posted by MT-2500

One clutch pack disengaging before the other clutch pack engages.
MT

Part of what causes the soft shift and some excess wear on the clutches is that they overlap. One clutchpack will stay engaged while the other one is engaging. There is an overlap and the car is theoretically in two gears at the same time. This is what gives you the smooth "comfortable" shift, and is also where a shift kit makes an improvement. A shift kit will make this overlap much shorter or maybe even non-existent, resulting in a quicker shift. I agree that a harsh shift is bad for the transmission, but shift kits are supposed to provide quicker, snappier shifts, not harsh shifts. If there is enough power, it may feel harsh though.

Shift kits themselves do not cause damage to the transmission, its just that usually some type of power increase is made before they are put in. Many transmissions can't handle much of a power increase. Shifts kits can help, but sometimes they don't or it is too late. Once you have power and a shift kit in the trans, it is things like transmision mounts, u-joints, and rear ends that take the stress that the transmission use to soak up. It's just more efficiently passing the power to the rest of the drive train, instead of soaking it up to make it feel more comfortable.

As far as firm shifts or soft shifts, it comes down to preference. If you like a comfortable car, great, keep it soft. If you want a little more performance and do some occasional racing, and harder shift is great. Different people like different things--neither is wrong.

[corning_d3]

Ya'll are all right... Firm shifts are good for the transmission, Harsh, jerking shifts and spongy soft one's are not.. The only thing a ball/spring shift kit does is increases line pressure inside the transmission. You can flip the servo piston in a 4T60, as well as a few more transmissions.. I agree with MT-2500, I shitcan shift kits, and make adjustments to improve shift firmness. If you want slightly firmer shifts, try adding a small tube of friction modifier, or drain the transmission pan, and add half Type F, and half Dexron. Type F has a higher friction coefficient than dexron.

[silicon212]

Originally Posted by 400wagon

Part of what causes the soft shift and some excess wear on the clutches is that they overlap. One clutchpack will stay engaged while the other one is engaging. There is an overlap and the car is theoretically in two gears at the same time. This is what gives you the smooth "comfortable" shift, and is also where a shift kit makes an improvement.

Actually, you're a little backward on that. The engagement of two clutches for different gears at the same time during a shift, the overlap you speak of, will cause an instant drop in RPM and an instant reaction in the drivetrain - for as momentary as this is, the product of this process is a jerking shift (that 'squeak' or 'bark' of the tires during shift on a car with a stage 3 is evidence of this), not a 'smooth' shift. The smoothness comes as one clutch begins to disengage as the other begins to engage.

Automatic transmissions (excluding Ford to 1977) do have a certain amount of built-in slip on the shifts to them - the reason is the same as the reason they used nylon-tooth aluminum timing sprockets in the engine - most people want a quiet car they can't hear while driving. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does result in premature wear - in the case of the timing sprocket, a cam that no longer turns and an oil pan sump full of little nylon chunks that wind up in the oil pump, and in the case of a transmission, a clutch failure while driving uphill trying to get home on a stormy day.

I always run 4 quarts or so of Type F in my transmissions along with the other 6-8 quarts of Dexron III. Has the same effect on a transmission as the $4/qt. B&M Trick Shift green fluid, for a lot less $$$. I also always use a steel timing sprocket with a true roller chain, quietness be damned, I don't want to break down and get stranded somewhere because I wanted a quiet, smooth car.

I've used governor mods. stiffer springs and TV adjustments to set up my transmission for a good, long life - the only time I ever used a shift kit was on a TH350 and I wound up breaking a U-joint because of it.