B18a vs b16a1

[blahblahscrewu]

What are the specs for both of these? I heard the b18 has 135hp with around 125lb/ft.... is that about right? Also, what are the specs are on the b16a1? I think its 160hp and 111lb/ft.

I have an 89 crx and I was wondering which is the best engine to drop into it. Which one runs a faster quarter mile, and which one has the most upgradability? Also (the big Q) what are the prices on both of them, i know the b16 costs more but is it worth the money. my plans are, well were to buy a b16a1 dohc vtec from jdm or hondamotorsonline.com and bore it out to either 1,8 or 2.0 liters and go turbo. but then i started hearing stuff about how b18a's were lil bit cheaper and pretty much just as good as b16 because of their torque, plz help me out, i could use allll the knowledge i can take in before i make my decision, thanx...

[civickiller]

the b18a hp depends on the what year your b18a is, 90-91 is 130hp and the 92-93 is 140hp.

b18a's are pretty much just as expensive if you buy it from a performance dealer but if you can get one from a junkyard then it can be really cheap. with the b18a you can always go ls-vtec which is pretty bad ass. but if you dont want to go that drastic then i would suggest going b16a.

if the engines were stock then the b16a would be faster than the b18a.

k heres what i think: if you got enough money to get the engine and the turbo right now then go b18a, if you got enough money just to get the engine and you cant afford the turbo for like a year then i say to b16a, if you got enough money to get the engine then have like 500 after then go lsvtec. hope this helps

[Jmunk]

I just helped my friend put a B18a in his 88 CRX a week ago. He went to a junkyard and told them what he wanted to do and they gave him the front clip from a 90 integra for $400. They bascially cut the car in half and gave him the front half. He got a dam good deal. Will the motor and tranny from the 92-93 fit in the same as the 90. Did anything major change between the years ?

[EightOhOne]

the 92-93 is obd1 where as the 90-91 is obd 0. Since your friend has the whole front cut, he could switch his car to obd1 pretty easily though, Assuming he has the full harness.




as for blah, what are your plans for your car? forced induction or all motor? if youre going turbo, go with the b18.

[Jmunk]

If i got a 93 integra front clip like he did all i would have to do is swap out the wire harness to make it OBD 1 . Right ?

[silver89civic]

I wanna build an engine like b18 LS/VTEC+TURBO but what u guys think...?
Comparing B20vtec vs B18 LS/VTEC, which is better torque, strenght, upgradable, I mean fully built & turbo?????

[EightOhOne]

Originally posted by silver89civic
I wanna build an engine like b18 LS/VTEC+TURBO but what u guys think...?
Comparing B20vtec vs B18 LS/VTEC, which is better torque, strenght, upgradable, I mean fully built & turbo?????

id go b20vtec, due to the larger displacement/torque. Although you could get the ls block for cheaper.
heres some sites on the b20vtec if you haven't seen them.
http://www.b20vtec.com/frontpage.html
http://crvtec.com/

[silver89civic]

Thanks EightOhOne!
I'll do some more research, I'm still trying to figure out what's the best swap for my 4g civic...to have 200-250whp

[C16, tha VTEC prof]

if you are SERIOUSLY considering doing ANY of these swaps, you need to educate yourself a lot more man. Don't waste your time with any frankenstein conversions because it's gonna break your heart when you put a piston through a cylinder wall because of the ass-eating rod to stroke ratio of the LS-VTEC monster. If you want turbo, go with a b18a of b18b, so that you wont have to worry about modifying your engine's electronics to work a turbo and VTEC, because b18a and b are dohc non-vtec, and you still have the superior 1900cc's of displacement. Also, don't consider turbo-ing your b16a unless you are ready for weeks of electrical tuning, reinforcing of the stock internals, and making your forced induction work with the revered VTEC which will kick in at the same RPM as your everyday t34 turbo system. it sounds like you're kind of new to this, and you're horse-hungry, but you need to understand that you dont need to go so extreme to get 210 horses. Now for my 10 cents on a engine choice... B16a1 jdm ($1400 tops at your doorstep with transmission, ecu, and the works), then, begin replacing the commom bolt-ons (intake manifold, exhaust, etc...) with ITR (integra type R) components. all B-series components are interchangeable, but some variations include compressions of pistons, cable/hydraulic transmissions, etc... continue to also replace pistons, cams, retainers, springs, gaskets (always replace gaskets when swapping) to ITR, and possibly portflow your head. Naturally aspirated, with the right airflow and inner engine harmony, your B will run over 200 whp, and if you want after that, invest in a Apex VAFC controller (which will control and record your fuel/air mixture and allow you to tune it (and your vtec timing) from your driver seat), which will (in part) allow you to throw that turbo on and make it work with the VTEC (which you should probably be told stands for variable valve timing electronic control) which, very basically stated, means that in the lower RPMs, your B is a purring cheetah waiting to strike, and when it hits the RPM sweet spot, which can be easily tuned but most commonly lies between 4 and 5 G's, it is unleashed, and your engine begins running a dramatically more agressive cam grind, which accels you to nearly pissing you pants the first time you experience it. with that brief message, i wish you luck, and i'm always here for any more questions you have. Girls, 4th gens, and girls:smoka: -ice

[silver89civic]

Thanks C16
I have $5k to put on my 4g. I just want to be able to beat V8s. That's all and of course, have FUN drag racing

[civickiller]

who is this c16, he makes it sound like were idiots. we all know the side effects of ls vtec, piston through the wall usually only happens under high boost or high rpm. if you got 5 grand then you can get over 200 hp with ls vtec.

ls vtec with type r pistons will give you a 12:1 comp ratio then get type r cams. but thats only if you want to go all motor, personally i think al motor suck, but only go ls vtec if you gonna build it right. shops usually charge around 1500 for lsvtec conversion. with this setup youll run 13s.

its hard to beat V8s with only 5 grand to spend. when you get into all motor you gotta start running racing fuel and stuff to get serious about beating V8s, forced induction is better

with the b16 since it is already has suck high comp buying type r stuff doesnt really add that much and it wont give you that much more hp, at least not the kind of hp your looking for

hope this helps.

[silver89civic]

I know, I know..Im gonna put a turbo eventually but I just wanna do something for the moment...damn! Im running a D15B!!! and Im sick and tired of going slow...
so I thought going LS/VTEC+turbo would be a good option. I may get a T3/T4 turbo customized pipping...

[Moppie]

You want 200hp?


option 1.

Take one JDM B16a, leave internals standard, add one high lift and duration intake cam, and mix with similar exhaust cam from any number of manufactors. Uprate valve springs to suit.
Install one VAFC or similar tunable piggy back ECU and blend the whole combination on a dyno untill well sorted.

For extra spice add a a set of 4-1 headers.

(for more HP replace B16a with B18c)

Option 2.

Take one B18a or B20b. Leave it standard but mix with one of many B series Turbo kits. Run at about 6psi of boost on the standard ECU.
For more extreme hp levels, lower CR with new pistons and attach them to stronger aftermarket rods.
Wind up even more boost, 10psi should do, then tune on a dyno with a suitable piggy back ECU.


Option 3.

Take one B16a and add a Turbo or Supercharger to stock internals.
Run no more than 6psi of boost and complement stock ECU with a fuel pressure regualtor suitably tuned on a dyno.

(again, for extra spice us a B18c)


Opton 4.
(Caution, the following should only be attempted by experianced and mechanicaly minded people. Having a second car to use is very important, as is having a good colection of tools, plenty of money, access to a work shop and suitable machine shop, (a B16a head will not fit on a B20a with out having the compustion chamber machined out.))
Take one B18a or B20a engine block and add one B16a cylinder head.
Add either wild cams or Turbo, or both.
Run lots of boost. Tune with suitable piggy back ECU.
Fix motor every other weekend, and rebuild it at least once every year.




And remember that once you've got hold of all this extra hp it dosnt mean shit if your car still has its stock suspension and brakes.
Anything short of 4wheel discs and a matched set of new springs, shocks and sway bars is a total waste of time.

[white rice]

civickiller: who is this c16, he makes it sound like were idiots. we all know the side effects of ls vtec, piston through the wall usually only happens under high boost or high rpm. if you got 5 grand then you can get over 200 hp with ls vtec.

Watcha' mouth civickiller, your talking to someone who builds B series engines for a living. I've had the pleasure of growing up with C16, and without reservation i can say he knows more about Honda engines than you know about your own family. He's built 8 LS/VTEC's, and bluprinted every one, 2 of which have blown the f*&$ up. The problem is the R/S ratio, and contrary to popular belief, you can't build a "reliable" LS/VTEC due to it. here's a story... the b18a and b blocks run a stock crank who's rod stroke runs significantly longer than any VTEC engine's, so we tried using a b17a crank which corrected a little bit because of the B17's similar displacement, shorter R/S ratio, and strength at higher compression, but then we ran into another problem.. piston dome clearance. The VTEC head, mounted, is so near the piston at stroke peak, it is dangerously close, and with cast pistons which WILL expand under intense heat, you will be knocking that bitch all the way from 8 to 10 G's. plus, you can't expect to run a 12:1 compression ratio with 1800cc's of displacement, it's like using a lady finger insted of an M80 under a garbage can and expecting it to budge. if you do run high comp. pistons, one of many things you should never do with this setup, is to run high compression pistons without first sleeving the cylinders, if at all. this is the reason: at the peak of the piston's rise, the rod, which is running a horribly offset R/S ratio, is pushing that poor little piston against the cylinder wall and not straight up into the cylinder. a stock b16 runs an almost perfect R/S of 1:74 to the ideal 1:75, and the LS/VTEC will run 1:60 at best. It's a lot like having sex with a virgin with 7" diameter piece... painful... for her, then also for your engine. back to the story... After the crank being replaced, 11.1 compression pistons (cast), forged rods, ITR internals in the head -cams, retainers, springs, intake manifold, rings-, fuel pumps, injectors, rail, filters, and sleeving the cylinders, we mapped our fuel to serve a 64mm throttle body, inducing a Turbonetics T4 liquid to air intercooled system, and a hondata/Apex VAFC piggy back ECU combination, the beast was running an impressive 375 whp, 16psi of boost, and torque that escapes me, but i'll post dyno slips soon. Now for the sad part... It was a 85 degree day in Cali, just off I5 in San Pamona, where we were having a meet. We were staging the turbo about 20 minutes prior to the race and the Hondata was flashing code 4 (the block was detecting a knock). frantically, we tried our best to tune our bottom end while staging, and got the code corrected, we were set. Running the expected 13 psi (conservatively), we lined up against a Gsr (b18c1). Flagger dropped and we were off, at 5500 the turbo and VTEC kicked in at the same time, exactly what you don't want to happen, and what we were afraid might happen after tuning prior to the race. it was exhilerating, but gut wrenching as we began to feel the knock again. The VAFC was out of control, and showing the AF mix was extremely rich, then shifting into 3rd at 10 g's and about 62 mph, we heard an extremely loud hollow thump, and the hood was dented upwards about 6 inches. The blow off whistled for it's last time and was followed by my saying "Oh Fuck". C was in tears. There was over 6000 into that engine, it was just flushed down the toilet. This is what happened: At 9600 rpm through 2nd gear, the crank ejected two pistons from the rods when they became jammed on the downward motion of it's stroke, then pushed up and out by the then bent crank shaft, one up into it's combustion chamber with so much force it popped the valve cover straight off the head. The second ejected piston was blow forward through it's cylinder wall, and blew the exhaust manifold clear off of the block. we never even found the gasket or the heads of the manifold's bolts. the best part was, the front left head stud from the popped valve cover ricoched off of the hood and into the turbine of the turbo charger, jamming, distroying, and completely disasselbling the turbine's structure, and the exhaust manifold pushed into the fluidyne radiator, which in turn even broke the front end of the body kit after bending the steel bumper assembly. What i'm saying is, C16 is a professional, and even after extensive time, money, and effort even HE couldn't keep what happened from happening. He is trying to warn everyone so that they dont have to go what he went through, and you're telling him that he makes people feel stupid? the knowledge you can learn from him is so extensive you can't comprehend. look up the word "appreciation" in the dictionary, get some, and then post. If you think you know that much abount honda's, that's great, but telling someone to spend 5 G's on an engine you obviously know jack shit about, and probably haven't owned, over someone who lives and breathes them, you have a serious problem:finger:. Just dont forget that this scene is about one love, and passing on the knowledge to the next guy who needs some help, and especially the ones who need good advice is what you're supposed to do. so just have a little more respect, this is our scene, and if you hold a grudge against C, you're missing out on invaluable information, and if you see him on the street, you'll wish you could make out his warning lights blinking when he's done with you. Oh yeah, you will not run near a 13 w/ ITR cams or pistons. We ran our last N/A LS/VTEC BRAND NEW, yes, 0 MILES, and it ran a 14.5. you're a horrible guesser killer, a horrible guesser, Stay away from Cali. peace, love, and hondas. thanks, Wr.

[91HBSi]

What the crap is wrong with you people, calm down

Ok, for one... don't go ls/vtec or crvtec unless you have the money to rebuild it and replace stuff constantly. It is strictly a race setup.

Do something simple like what Moppie said. With the b16a setup he described 5.0's shouldn't be a problem at all. If all you want to do is beat mustangs, just drop in a b16a or b18b and learn to drive.