1996 T&C stalls at highway speed

[bad3.8TC]

1996 T&C 45k mi. bought car new, no prior repairs or problems. Car dies at highway speeds, will restart most of the time immediately and run correctly. Sometimes the engine must cool for a few minutes, if it does start prior to cooldown the engine has no power and if attempted to rev it will try to backfire. On a recent 9hr trip the engine stalled 3 times about an hour apart and restarted immediately, on the 4th stall it had to cool down and I finished the last 2 hours of the trip without stalling. Never stalls at slow speeds or idle.
Thanks for any advice.

[vamc]

Sounds like a coil. I would replace that first. also have you changes your gas filter, tune-up.

[bad3.8TC]

Originally Posted by vamc

Sounds like a coil. I would replace that first. also have you changes your gas filter, tune-up.

I did replaced the fuel filter since my wife reported that the engine had stalled twice (both times after she filled it with gas). I thought this may have fixed the problem since it had not occured again for ~ 1 month. I'll replace the coil, was also thinking about the crankshaft sensor?
Thanks,

[vamc]

Im not sure on the crankshaft sensor. Its possable.

[rrichard7]

Make sure your fans are running. I had a similar problem. If you turn on your a/c, the fans should come on. Give them a minute. If not, unplug the temp. sensor next to the thermostat. If still no fans, the fan relay is probably bad. I replaced my temp sensor and the problem has not recurred.

Ray
96 T&C 119K
99 GV 70K
96 Regal 97K

[jmbean40]

Did you ever solve this problem?

I have the exact same problem with my 96 Grand Caravan. I replaced the coil => not the problem. I am certain it is fuel system related but not sure where to start. My past experience with oxygen sensor failures was that when they go out the car won't run at all.

[GTP Dad]

This sounds like a crank position sensor. Usually the vehicle will shut off and allow you to restart immediately. When the CPS goes bad it usually does not throw a CEL. The fact that the 4th time it stalled you had to let it cool down indicates that the sensor is overheating and needs to be replaced.

[jmbean40]

Unlikethe other gentlemen, I get a misfire code when this happens.

[bad3.8TC]

Originally Posted by GTP Dad

This sounds like a crank position sensor. Usually the vehicle will shut off and allow you to restart immediately. When the CPS goes bad it usually does not throw a CEL. The fact that the 4th time it stalled you had to let it cool down indicates that the sensor is overheating and needs to be replaced.

I replaced the fuel filter about one month ago and drove ~1k mi. before the problem reoccurred. I don't think it is a fuel system related problem. The fans are running. I replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor this weekend since it is fairly cumbersome to get to. I also purchased a coil to carry in the vehicle cuz it is easy to get to. Hopefully, the CPS will prove out over time. I let you guys know if the problem is solved. Thanks for all your feedback.

[neon_rt]

My sister had a similar problem with her Voyager. She also noticed that when it would stall, the gas gauge would be in the process of going down to E. If she tried to restart it, she knew it would restart if the Gas Gauge was working when she turned the key. If the Gauge stayed on E and the Low Fuel Alarm came on, she knew it would not start. It recently stalled again and wouldn't restart, had it towed to the shop. Turns out that there was an electrical supply problem to the Fuel pump assembly (which includes the fuel level sensor).

[jmbean40]

I think its the Crankshaft Position Sensor. Here's more insightful information I found from another web source (I can send you a PDF of the thread if you want it):

With Daimler/Chrysler vehicles, both the CKP & CMP sensors are hall-effect signal generators. Halleffect sensors are powered by an external source (3 wires) as opposed to simple AC signal generators (2 wires). Depending on model, the PCM supplies each sensor with either 5V or 9V.

Also with Daim/Chry systems, the CKP emits multiple signals with a missing spike in the signal stream. The CMP emits it's signal at the time of the CKP's missing signal, in the blank spot. This is how the PCM knows when #1 cyl is at TDC. If one were to look at the signals on a 2 channel oscope, it would look like this:

CKP: xxx_xxx_xxx_...
CMP ___x___x___x___...

These 2 signals must coincide at the right time. If the signals are out of sync or overlap, the PCM infers that valve timing is incorrect and will render the ign sys and fuel injectors inoperative in an attempt to prevent serious engine damage. The system shuts down.

Remember where the individual sensors are located. The CMP is mounted on the cyl head and takes it's reading directly from one of the cams. owever, the CKP does not take it's reading directly from the crankshaft: It's mounted on the trans bell housing & takes it's reading from a vaned reluctor mounted on the flywheel.

[bad3.8TC]

Originally Posted by jmbean40

I think its the Crankshaft Position Sensor. Here's more insightful information I found from another web source (I can send you a PDF of the thread if you want it):

With Daimler/Chrysler vehicles, both the CKP & CMP sensors are hall-effect signal generators. Halleffect sensors are powered by an external source (3 wires) as opposed to simple AC signal generators (2 wires). Depending on model, the PCM supplies each sensor with either 5V or 9V.

Also with Daim/Chry systems, the CKP emits multiple signals with a missing spike in the signal stream. The CMP emits it's signal at the time of the CKP's missing signal, in the blank spot. This is how the PCM knows when #1 cyl is at TDC. If one were to look at the signals on a 2 channel oscope, it would look like this:

CKP: xxx_xxx_xxx_...
CMP ___x___x___x___...

These 2 signals must coincide at the right time. If the signals are out of sync or overlap, the PCM infers that valve timing is incorrect and will render the ign sys and fuel injectors inoperative in an attempt to prevent serious engine damage. The system shuts down.

Remember where the individual sensors are located. The CMP is mounted on the cyl head and takes it's reading directly from one of the cams. owever, the CKP does not take it's reading directly from the crankshaft: It's mounted on the trans bell housing & takes it's reading from a vaned reluctor mounted on the flywheel.

Drove van around town for weeks with no problem. Started a 4hr. trip from Dallas to Houston. 145 mi. into the trip the car shut down, restarted on shoulder of road while coasting in neutral and went on for another 1/2 hr. Repeated scenario again and pulled over to replace the coil assembly. Ran for another hour then would not restart until the engine cooled for ~15 min. Restarted and drove the next 1.5 hrs to Houston with no problem. On return trip I got within 30 miles of completing the 4hr trip before it failed. I scared the car into limping home by cursing. I don't think this is a fuel system related item since you can keep the engine running by quickly pulsing the throttle by hand but the engine starts trying to backfire like the timing is just way off. When the engine cools off it runs like a top at idle or taking off in gear at full throttle. I have now replace the Camshaft Position Sensor and will report results when I get some miles on the part.
Thanks for any feedback.

[jmbean40]

Originally Posted by bad3.8TC

Drove van around town for weeks with no problem. Started a 4hr. trip from Dallas to Houston. 145 mi. into the trip the car shut down, restarted on shoulder of road while coasting in neutral and went on for another 1/2 hr. Repeated scenario again and pulled over to replace the coil assembly. Ran for another hour then would not restart until the engine cooled for ~15 min. Restarted and drove the next 1.5 hrs to Houston with no problem. On return trip I got within 30 miles of completing the 4hr trip before it failed. I scared the car into limping home by cursing. I don't think this is a fuel system related item since you can keep the engine running by quickly pulsing the throttle by hand but the engine starts trying to backfire like the timing is just way off. When the engine cools off it runs like a top at idle or taking off in gear at full throttle. I have now replace the Camshaft Position Sensor and will report results when I get some miles on the part.
Thanks for any feedback.

******************************************

I have $1500 into my van with no resolution.

I had one mechanic replace the coil, plugs, plug cables, and fuel filter. I also had him clean the fuel injectors ($450). Then I replace the Crankshaft Position Sensor ($50). This week I had another shop work on it. They said it was a wiring harness problem to the fuel injection and part of the F/I needed to be replaced ($1000). I drove it away from the shop with no problem until it was fully warmed up. At 65-70mph it acted up again. Had it towed back in yesterday and still waiting for diagnoses. Should be done by today.

Are you getting code 43? Or do you know how to check the codes yourself? If not, I can explain how.

[bad3.8TC]

Originally Posted by jmbean40

******************************************

I have $1500 into my van with no resolution.

I had one mechanic replace the coil, plugs, plug cables, and fuel filter. I also had him clean the fuel injectors ($450). Then I replace the Crankshaft Position Sensor ($50). This week I had another shop work on it. They said it was a wiring harness problem to the fuel injection and part of the F/I needed to be replaced ($1000). I drove it away from the shop with no problem until it was fully warmed up. At 65-70mph it acted up again. Had it towed back in yesterday and still waiting for diagnoses. Should be done by today.

Are you getting code 43? Or do you know how to check the codes yourself? If not, I can explain how.

***************************************
Don't get a code 43, have gotten 21 and 32 but I believe they're just erroneous codes caused by the engine dumping raw fuel when I try to force it to run (when I'm just trying to diagnose what is happening). I have purchased both Oxy. Sensors to replace but I don't think they are a problem. The very first time this occurred the Dealer said it was the fuel system (wanted me to bless them with $900 to replace) or O2 sensors (wanted me to give them a $250 gift for each, $500 total). Told 'em no thanks and here I am trouble shooting it myself. In fact, I first replace the fuel filter because the repair manual p25-12 states "that fuel pressure issues caused by the filter, etc. can result in a rich/lean condition and cause the PCM to store erroneous O2 or fuel system troulbe codes" Duh?? Electronics are a mighty profitable invention for car Dealers obviously since they can't isolate a problem down to a single failed part (too much interaction between all the components). Thanks again for your help.

[1thunder]

fuel pump must be checked when the problem is happening have tech install pressure tester on fuel rail and drive van untill it quits then look at fuel pressure gauge i'm sure you will find the problem then