HELP ! What are symtoms of valve (head) problems?

DOCTORBILL · #1 11-05-2005, 06:17 PM

My '93 Geo Metro 2 door hatchback has been acting up.

Periodically the engine sort of coughs and runs badly. No power like
it usually has. Sounds like it is running on two of the three cylinders...

I thought it was a plugged fuel filter (see my post of 11-4 10:06AM).

After changing the fuel filter, it keeps happening.

I added about half a quart of transmission fluid to the oil in case I had
a stuck lifter - they are hydrolic. The problem has lessened
(sometimes goes away!) but comes and goes. The car sounds like a
diesel - makes a lot of engine noise and chugs going up hills with little
power (have to downshift).

I replaced the ignition wires, distributor and rotor. No change....
I have not checked the timing - I have a timing light, but it is rainy
and windy here in the Palouse of Spokane! Could the spark coil or
whatever works as points be bad? But then THAT would be ALL THE
TIME.....

I was told it is probably a "Stuck Valve" and I'll need the head rebuilt.
How much should THAT cost me?

So I would like any of you folks who are knowledgable with Metros to
PLEASE educate me about the head, valves, lifters, timing, etc.

I have a cylinder pressure guage with a rubber push end - no screw
in nut or hose. I would like to try the cylinder pressure with and w/o
oil added to the cylinder, but as I said - crap weather keeps me
indoors.....

HELP! Some insight please! I hate to dump the car - it is such a
sweet little car when it is working properly!!!!

And will driving it this way cause damage to the engine?

Lots of questions......

DoctorBill

fiberglassman · #2 11-05-2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOCTORBILL

My '93 Geo Metro 2 door hatchback has been acting up.

Periodically the engine sort of coughs and runs badly. No power like
it usually has. Sounds like it is running on two of the three cylinders...

I thought it was a plugged fuel filter (see my post of 11-4 10:06AM).

After changing the fuel filter, it keeps happening.

I added about half a quart of transmission fluid to the oil in case I had
a stuck lifter - they are hydrolic. The problem has lessened
(sometimes goes away!) but comes and goes. The car sounds like a
diesel - makes a lot of engine noise and chugs going up hills with little
power (have to downshift).

I replaced the ignition wires, distributor and rotor. No change....
I have not checked the timing - I have a timing light, but it is rainy
and windy here in the Palouse of Spokane! Could the spark coil or
whatever works as points be bad? But then THAT would be ALL THE
TIME.....

I was told it is probably a "Stuck Valve" and I'll need the head rebuilt.
How much should THAT cost me?

So I would like any of you folks who are knowledgable with Metros to
PLEASE educate me about the head, valves, lifters, timing, etc.

I have a cylinder pressure guage with a rubber push end - no screw
in nut or hose. I would like to try the cylinder pressure with and w/o
oil added to the cylinder, but as I said - crap weather keeps me
indoors.....

HELP! Some insight please! I hate to dump the car - it is such a
sweet little car when it is working properly!!!!

And will driving it this way cause damage to the engine?

Lots of questions......

DoctorBill

chevorlet come out with a update on the oil used in a geo 3 cly. only use 5 wt oil because the lifters holes are to small for any heavier oil to flow threw, sounds like a burnt valve , my car did that and it cost around 500 bucks to have one replaced. there is a lot of geo out there with burnt valves because of using the wrong weight of oil. I will have to look for that paper and type out what it says for all of ya.

DOCTORBILL · #3 11-05-2005, 08:10 PM

Holy crapoli, Batman - THAT is BIG news IF true!

I have been using 30 wt oil in my '93 Metro!

What bulls**t that is if true - that means almost everyone
has ruined their Metro engines because Chevrolet has not
emphasized using 5W weight oil!

Can we all sue Chevrolet for this?

Class action Lawsuit.....?

Any lawyers out there reading this?

ANY COST for having a valve job should be PAID FOR BY chevrolet !

What a dirty thing to do to all of us Metro owners!

I MEAN THAT!

DoctorBill

Crvett69 · #4 11-05-2005, 09:34 PM

they recomend 5w30. straight 30 weight is kinda thick for them. all the ones i have seen with burnt valves seem to have between 140-160k miles, thinks its just the time they wear out

DOCTORBILL · #5 11-07-2005, 07:32 PM

Both FIBERGLASSMAN and CRVETTE69...

I want to thank you two for your help!

See my post on:
Should we use High Detergent, Thinner Oil?

I answered my own question on the reply.....

You guys got me trying thinner oil and it sure as Hell worked!

One day after changing to 5W-30, my lifters work again.
I thought I was looking at a $500 valve/head job......Ugh!

Once again - THANKS!

I hope many others see this and stick to the thinner oils - especially
those who have winter driving where the oil might STAY THICK
like mine did.

I even bought some 20 weight if I need to thin my oil down some..
I can always "top up" when the oil level drops with driving with some
20 weight.

I hope this little honey keeps working as it did all summer.
I love driving a Metro 3 cyl. Like a little sports car!

DoctorBill

DoctorBill

gumby_ct · #6 11-08-2005, 12:06 AM

I am not really sure that 20W will THIN it??

Crvett69 · #7 11-08-2005, 12:46 PM

20 w will probably thicken it up, if you must thin it you will need to add 5w or some atf tranny fluid but 5w30 seems to work good for me year round. i went to auburn and got 2 of the JDM engines for metros yesterday, cost me $325 each out the door and got to pick the ones i wanted

DOCTORBILL · #8 11-08-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crvett69

20 w will probably thicken it up, if you must thin it you will need to add 5w or some atf tranny fluid but 5w30 seems to work good for me year round. i went to auburn and got 2 of the JDM engines for metros yesterday, cost me $325 each out the door and got to pick the ones i wanted

I guess I don't understand what the designations in motor oil
mean.

Please look at my new thread concerning motor oil.

DoctorBill

DieInterim · #9 11-08-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOCTORBILL

My '93 Geo Metro 2 door hatchback has been acting up.

Periodically the engine sort of coughs and runs badly. No power like
it usually has. Sounds like it is running on two of the three cylinders...

I thought it was a plugged fuel filter (see my post of 11-4 10:06AM).

After changing the fuel filter, it keeps happening.

I added about half a quart of transmission fluid to the oil in case I had
a stuck lifter - they are hydrolic. The problem has lessened
(sometimes goes away!) but comes and goes. The car sounds like a
diesel - makes a lot of engine noise and chugs going up hills with little
power (have to downshift).

I replaced the ignition wires, distributor and rotor. No change....
I have not checked the timing - I have a timing light, but it is rainy
and windy here in the Palouse of Spokane! Could the spark coil or
whatever works as points be bad? But then THAT would be ALL THE
TIME.....

I was told it is probably a "Stuck Valve" and I'll need the head rebuilt.
How much should THAT cost me?

So I would like any of you folks who are knowledgable with Metros to
PLEASE educate me about the head, valves, lifters, timing, etc.

I have a cylinder pressure guage with a rubber push end - no screw
in nut or hose. I would like to try the cylinder pressure with and w/o
oil added to the cylinder, but as I said - crap weather keeps me
indoors.....

HELP! Some insight please! I hate to dump the car - it is such a
sweet little car when it is working properly!!!!

And will driving it this way cause damage to the engine?

Lots of questions......

DoctorBill

Mine will act up if I am pushing the engine to keep a speed on a long grade. It will suddenly lose power, start pinging, and smoke like crazy out the exhaust. Its pretty damn scary! The problem will go away as soon as I let off the gas.I have not nailed down the reason but I do have a few Ideas.

Poor head drainage- I originally thought this was the reason since as soon as my engine did this the first time I immediately pulled over and pulled the air cleaner. I did this because I needed to locate the source of the smoke. But when I lifted the lid off the cleaner assembly I noticed a trail of oil from the valve cover breather hole leading into the throttle body. Could oil be building up inside the valve cover and pump into the air cleaner? Did oil pump into the air-cleaner, the oil thus sealing the pistons better and raising the compression too high? Dunno.

Another thought is that these engines run so lean that if the egr is not correct, combustion tempature goes sky-high and melt holes in pistons or burn valves. Did the rings get hot and lose tension, causing enough blow-by to push oil into the air cleaner?

Now my egr system is flowing but there is a fair amount of carbon build up. I will be de-carboning the engine and see if this ailment vanishes. I have an extremely noisy fuel pump that I will be replacing. Perhaps it does have the pressure but not the flow needed. Otherwise, this engine has trained me how to drive without rearing its ugly frightful head. Slow and easy and 50+ MPG.

Blake

DanMan7 · #10 12-19-2006, 11:08 PM

Wow I didn't know that you had to use 5W30 oil. When I got my Geo it's been using 10W30 in it for at least a couple of years. Acts like it has a burnt valve. Think if I replace the head with a new one that'll solve the problem? Also from now on I'll use 5W30 oil. Thanks for the tip! Also just to let you know my 92 Geo has about 160,000 miles.

Dan

sbiddle · #11 12-20-2006, 10:40 AM

If it was me, I'd do a leakdown test to see what valves were effected and I'd pull the head and replace only the effected valve(s). If you put a new head (or rebuild your head) the increase in compression is likely to push oil past the rings and you'll trail a cloud of smoke.

DOCTORBILL · #12 12-20-2006, 11:22 AM

If you are new to this Forum, please check my Threads that I started since I
first posted this particular thread back over a year ago.

I took my '93's head off, had it rebuilt, changed out my own Rings myself working
in my driveway, then finally found out about the vast importance of the MAP Sensor.

Have a look at
"NOT the end of my '93 metro...Life after death! RINGS"

which came after
"That's the end of my '93 Metro....."

Each is full of pictures of my "progress" in fixing my baby which I now call
The Phoenix and may change to The Blue Phoenix....

She is running like a well oiled machine.....

DoctorBill

$400chevymetro · #13 12-25-2006, 09:21 AM

Sounds like a burnt valve. What happens as your valves go up and down they also rotate. When the valve and seat align where it's starting to burn you lose compression in that cylinder and it won't fire then it rotates and starts firing again. The problem is every time it gets to the bad spot and sends the burning gases thru it burns it some more so it keeps getting worse and worse. If you can do the work yourself take the head of and get it redone or you can buy a rebuilt one on ebay, it should be around $200.00 for a valve job plus the cost of a gasket set. It's not really that hard I just did mine and put a set of rings and bearings in it while I had the head off. Total cost was about $340.00

DOCTORBILL · #14 12-25-2006, 12:00 PM

Now that I just finished changing the Rings and having the Head rebuilt, I would
be very tempted to buy old Metros with good Bodies and Interiors and fix the
engines myself.

The only problem is that none of my kids or wife want to drive such a little "pooper"
vehicle!

How little they know!

Now that I found out how easy it is to rebuild the engines w/o havibng to remove
them....I'm ready to do it again!

We should keep all the Geo Metros alive for eternity.... I hate to see them
corroding away in the wrecking yards all gutted out.

The only problem I have with my Metro is getting in and out of it!

Like setting down on a pillow on the floor without first squatting. I always hit
my knee on the steering wheel getting in - I'm 5' 10" tall - how anyone taller
can get into a Metro is amazing!

DoctorBill

Crvett69 · #15 12-25-2006, 01:30 PM

im 6' and i get in and out with no problem at all, of couse i have the seat all the way back. might put yours all the way back when you get out if you have it forward at all. also if you put a swift GT wheel on it they are a smaller dia.

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