3800 Rip

[troy1]

Does anyone have any idea why GM would get rid of the 3800? Its one of the top 10 best engines ever made. Its old school tech but it gets great MPG, powerfull, solid and a smooth runner. its going to the scrap yard for what the 3900 another bored out 3.1L?? I guess all that extra money that GM has had to be spent

[jessep28]

I wonder if that call is GM trying to get rid of the supercharger. That 3800 NA w/o modifications just stayed at 200HP. You had to have the SC to get another 40 or so HP stock.

That SC with the forced air induction I'm sure caused some headaces for the people who just bought say a Regal GS or Grand Prix GTP (now GT for 06') fod a daily driver becuase they had to keep putting in premium gasoline etc.

They axed the Regal for the LaCrosse and the engine went with it. I think RichTazz (sp?) was looking at them and when inquiring found out that they were able to get the SC HP out of a NA engine.

I don't agree with GM, but I can sort of see where they are coming from a business decision. You have to innovate somewhere and that means making tough decisions.

If this 3.9L fails, the 3800 will make a comeback.

[BNaylor]

On the new GM 3.5, 3.6 and 3.9 corporate engine platforms GM claims that the VVT, Variable Valve Timing is how they are able to up the horsepower. The 3.9L V6 VVT claims a 242 hp, however, the torque is no wheres near that of a supercharged Series II/III 3800. Chevy is using the 3.9L in the '06 Impala LT level 3 trim.

The 3.6L VVT V6 used in the LaCrosse CXS makes a claimed 240 hp but only 225 ft-lbs of torque. I test drove a LaCrosse CXS and it was very disappointing and the engine was very buzzy and felt weak compared to my Regal GS. The torque of a SC 3800 is superior at 280 ft-lbs stock.

Nonetheless, the venerable 3800 will live a long life in the used car market. Plenty of repair parts and aftermarket parts. Still one of the best engine ever made by GM.

As Carol Shelby put it "Horsepower sell cars but torque is what wins races."






Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[maxwedge]

Good point, especially if the torque is available throughout a usable rpm range. Tough act to follow in regards to 3800's reliability, short of the upper intake.

[jessep28]

Yeah, HP sells cars, which is exactly what GM is trying to do in higher volume

[richtazz]

The 92-95 3800's were bulletproof. I know of many examples with way over 300k, still with 40 psi oil pressure, getting 30+ highway mpg and with enough power to pass a row of blue hairs on their way to bingo driving at 10mph under the posted speed limit. The 96-up 3800's, except for the upper plenums, were also Uber reliable, so what are they thinking? My guess is that most of these new generation motors are being built in China or Mexico where labor is cheap and they are eliminating more US jobs. I've stated before that every attempt GM has made to replace the 3800 has blown up in their face. Why does GM try to copy Japanese technology? Variable valve timing has been around in Honda's and Toyota's for years, and GM is just now deciding to jump on the VVT bandwagon. If it's anything like there venture into multiple overhead cam motors, say hello to the new boat anchors to soon replace the 3.4 DOHC and anything labeled "quad 4" that GM has built over the past few years. LONG LIVE THE 3800!

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by richtazz

Why does GM try to copy Japanese technology?

Thats funny. It used to be the other way around.

GM is not doing too good of a job in the horsepower game anyways. They are going to find a lot of people switching over to Chrysler and Ford who truly know the meaning of horsepower and what car buyers want. You're not going to get that out of some corporate P.O.S. DOHC 6 cylinder engine. Just my 2 cents.

BTW - There is nothing in the GM product line thats appealing with the exception of the GTO and Z06 Corvette.








Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[richtazz]

I agree with you 100% Bob, the GM bean counters have won the war against the GM car guys. Did GM hire a bunch of ex-AMC designers. If you squint your eyes a bit, you can see a 75 Matador in the new Impala.

[jessep28]

Is the Gremlin next for the Grand Prix ("G8")?

GM is going to save about $3bn in losses this year by a deal with the UAW:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...fer=news_index

They will reduce health care liabilities by $15bn.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by richtazz

I agree with you 100% Bob, the GM bean counters have won the war against the GM car guys. Did GM hire a bunch of ex-AMC designers. If you squint your eyes a bit, you can see a 75 Matador in the new Impala.

Yeah, I know what you mean Rich. GM continues to head down a path of destruction. I read a Car & Driver road test article on the '06 Impala and they weren't too positive on the styling either. If they could get away with it they probably would have said it sucked.

Got the torque/hp figures on these new engines. As usual GM is still banking on the Chevrolet division and using them as a test bed. At least Pontiac had sense enough to keep the Series III 3800 NA and SC into the '06 model year. And Buick is lost in the quagmire.

BTW - Chevrolet markets the Impala against the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. Yeah, right!

CHEVROLET IMPALA
Vehicle type: front-engine, front-wheel-drive, 5-6-passenger, 4-door sedan
Base price: $21,990-$27,790
Engines: pushrod 12-valve 3.5-liter V-6, 211 hp, 214 lb-ft; pushrod 12-valve 3.9-liter V-6, 242 hp, 242 lb-ft; pushrod 16-valve 5.3-liter V-8, 303 hp, 323 lb-ft








Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[Franks 04 GTP]

anyone driven the GTO? I have. While the power and accelartion is SUPER, I did NOT like the auto transmission one that I drove. I found that it took too much throttle to make it down shift and when it did it would launch you hard, which is cool, but when you only need a little power and not the full force it was too much. Also did not like the fact that there was no sunroof, and no gadgets! I like buttons and the GTO just did not have them...Also the gas that that thing burns! If GM had what Chystler does in that it shuts down half of the cylinders when cruising down the interstate or sitting still in traffic, thus a huge 300m getting almost what our GP's get! IF the GTO did that I would have given it a second look.,.. just my .02

[Franks 04 GTP]

Also on the Horsepower thing. I traded my 92 caddy STS in for my 04 GTP. Now before I traded it on the GP I traded it on a 97 caddy STS. My 92 had the 4.9L NON-northstar engine. The 97 had the N* the 92 had 220ish on hp and the N* had 300, But my 92 I swear was faster because it had MUCH more lower end torque. The N* reved alot higher but you really had to be in the upper RPM's to really feel it. To me that was my HP vs. torque lesson...I brought the 97 back because the head gasket blew about 20 miles out the lot!!!

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by Franks 04 GTP

anyone driven the GTO? I have. While the power and accelartion is SUPER, I did NOT like the auto transmission one that I drove. I found that it took too much throttle to make it down shift and when it did it would launch you hard, which is cool, but when you only need a little power and not the full force it was too much. Also did not like the fact that there was no sunroof, and no gadgets! I like buttons and the GTO just did not have them...Also the gas that that thing burns! If GM had what Chystler does in that it shuts down half of the cylinders when cruising down the interstate or sitting still in traffic, thus a huge 300m getting almost what our GP's get! IF the GTO did that I would have given it a second look.,.. just my .02

You should have tested one with the Getrag 6 speed. I'm sold. Just need to save up some more money.

Some GTO owners with the automatic are experiencing poor 1/4 mile times, etc. Not living up to expectations.






Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[richtazz]

OH to be able to afford a 6 speed GTO!!!!!!! I've driven one, and they are a blast. A well laid out, well balanced, grin inducing street rocket, albeit with vanilla exterior styling. If, and i say "IF", you can stay out of it, a GTO will get almost 30mpg on the highway, believe it or not.

[jessep28]

Dark blue metallic, 6-speed manual with the 18" wheels.

Although I wish I had the driving skill to handle a car with that much power. I don't want to get myself or anybody else hurt.

I would care less about the 3800 being shelved then