transmission slipping after trans fluid change

[98gpking]

ok get this. i buy my gtp with 115k miles on it. the lady hadnt changed the trans fluid in a while as it was lookin a little brown. so i decided to get it done professionaly so nothing would go wrong. BOY WAS I FRIKING WRONG. ive always done my own work on my car till this. they did the tranny change. i got home and immediatley checked my trany fluid because it was slipping really bad. it was almost 2 quarts low...not good. i filled her up and she drove ok for a few days. then she was slipping again...checked the fluid. shes 3/4 a quart low. finaly now if i press on the gas quickly and the rpms go to like 3500rpms. there is like a slipping or a missing feeling. it feels like the traction control is working but its not quite as rough of a shaking vibrating feeling. i turn the TCS off and i still feel the shaking and rough take offs. when im driving my car with respect and decentcy it shifts fine and i dont feel the pumping shaking feeling. i took it back to jifffy lube they said they had checked the tranny fluid and the gears. they said it all loooked good. i asked if they flush all the cars with a trans fluid change they said they flush trannys with 200+k miles on them wit no probs. i said thats prob not a good idea he laughed and said if i can find a mechanic to tell me what the problem is and if the trans flush did cause the slipping they would fix the prob...but that could be a 600 dollar inspection. now what my opion on the prob is this. my EGR wasnt getting enough intake or something...some prb with the egr. i figured maybe that was causing that weird feeling. so i spent the 170 bucks for a new egr valve and sensor and the feeling is there but not as bad. so my guess is there is carbon built up and needs to be pushed out or moved and it may take time for the feeling to go away. but i dont think the trans fluid flush was good and im sure -2quarts was not healthy either. but i know these are 6k doallr trannies and dont wanna put a new one in. if anyone knows what the feeling may be or if they have any proof i ccould show jiffy lube that flushes arent good. thanks guys for the help. i know this is alot if you have any questions just ask. illl be glad to try and explain it to my best(i just bought the car so im not to familiar)
1998 grand prix gtp
117078 miles
k&N intake system
front stut tower stabilizer bar
oil changed 115679
trans fluid changed 116981
antifreeze flush 117011
supercharger fluid changed(1 bottle 4oz) 116789
egr valve replaced 117061

[regalfriend]

a flush at that milage is no good....the only way it would be good is if your sure the tranny had regular services every 15,000 miles...If your losing fluid like you say, you need to find the leak....if its from the trans pan then Jiffy lube would be responsible....if the car slips after you top off the fluid then you most likely will have to have trans rebuilt...at this point trans would need to come out for a teardown to find the problem...if this is the original tranny chances are its not in the best of shape anyway...if you do have the tranny replaced make sure they put the 4t65e-HD version in your car..not the standard 4t65e...alot of shops will try to pull a fast one on you....the standard 4t65e will fit in your car and even work ok...until... you decide to put a little tourqe to it...also make sure , before they start the work, you request all the old parts from your tranny, ....To be honest w/ you i wouldnt even let jiffy lube wipe my dogs ass

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by regalfriend

....To be honest w/ you i wouldnt even let jiffy lube wipe my dogs ass

lol. I'll second that.

But seriously, we've debated the issue of tranny flushes over and over and the general concensus is a flush is bad. I've lost count of all the people that have posted complaining of problems after a flush. Most of them wound up spending up to 2K - 3K to have the tranny rebuilt or replaced. It's an expensive learning experience.







Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[richtazz]

for the last time:
NEVER ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever (is that enough ever's?) do a trans fluid exchange/flush on a tranny with over 70k. EVER!

[GTP Dad]

Thanks richtazz for emphasizing that to the forum. This continues to be a real issue for everyone with high mileage cars. Unfortunately, it must be a huge money maker for mechanics and garages as they insist on doing flushes and unsuspecting consumers go right along with them. Unfortunately, for too many of them they end up spending thousands rather than a few dollars for repairs!

[richtazz]

Oil change places make a killing on trans flushes, that's why they "recommend" them. But if you go to one, almost all have a disclaimer on their invoice that they are not responsible for trans damage on vehicles over a certain mileage (gee, I wonder why that is there?) And thank you GTPdad, as a moderator, maybe your agreement will cement this in people's minds that trans flushes are BAD!

[BNaylor]

Personally this is just my opinion but I do not believe a 4T65E or HD tranny should ever be flushed. Just ATF and screen filter only at the recommended service intervals. Not 100K miles as GM suggests but at 50K miles and every thereafter. Sooner if your car is modded and/or you race.

In a span of 32 years of since owning my first car, I've never had one with an automatic transmission ever flushed. Just my 2 cents worth.





Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[richtazz]

Well stated Bnaylor, if you wait until the fluid looks bad, you waited too long. Preventative maintenance is a car owner's best insurance against future problems.

[ericvrose]

I dont know why GM isnt aware of this not flushing issue. They did it to mine and 4 months later had to replace the tranny at their expense.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by richtazz

Well stated Bnaylor, if you wait until the fluid looks bad, you waited too long. Preventative maintenance is a car owner's best insurance against future problems.

Rich, question for you. How about synthetic ATF. What are the pros and cons? When would be a good time to put some in (mileage) if it's OK?
Thanks in advance.



Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[richtazz]

Synthetics run slightly thinner than conventionals, so I hesitate to switch over unless you do it when the car is new or if you have a trans rebuilt. I have never been a big fan of synthetics, unless you really beat your equipment to death. I think an auxilliary trans cooler mounted forward of the radiator and condenser would be a better investment, plus you don't have to worry about possible leaks.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by richtazz

Synthetics run slightly thinner than conventionals, so I hesitate to switch over unless you do it when the car is new or if you have a trans rebuilt. I have never been a big fan of synthetics, unless you really beat your equipment to death. I think an auxilliary trans cooler mounted forward of the radiator and condenser would be a better investment, plus you don't have to worry about possible leaks.

Thanks for the info Rich. I was in another forum and some of those guys were making the switch but I'm leary about it. My Regal GS is getting ready to pass 45K miles and I was debating it. It's probably better to leave well enough alone. I'm afraid of leaks on the side cover, pan and half shafts. I guess I'll just stick with the good ole Dextron-III.

On my GTP I have an aftermarket oil pan. About an extra quart capacity with cooling fins and a drain plug. I'll probably add a B&M cooler for next year. I've never had any tranny problems with it. Knock on wood!

Someone addressed the issue of GM and flushing. They do recommend it, however, with only certain fluid exchangers and flushers and with stipulations.

Here's an Adobe PDF file for reference:

http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/arcv_pdf/4_00_e.pdf





Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[richtazz]

Do you have access to the "stipulations" that you mentioned? Just curious, because I didn't see them in the link you provided (of course I could be blind too).

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by richtazz

Do you have access to the "stipulations" that you mentioned? Just curious, because I didn't see them in the link you provided (of course I could be blind too).

I was referring to what I read in the text. It looks the first condition is they only recommend one brand of fluid exchanger (Wynn Transerve) and one brand of flusher (Kent-Moore) only. Then on the flushing it was recommended if there was a transmission failure or problem, otherwise not for routine maintenance. Another thing I saw was GM only recommends a certain approved flushing detergent to encapsulate fine particles. The fluid exchanger will not remove particles because it is low pressure and uses the tranny's pump.

I believe the bottom line is this, GM only recommends flushing if there is a problem, otherwise they only recommend a fluid exchange only using the Wynn Transerve probably to get all ATF out to include in the torque convertor.

I hope it all makes sense?






Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

[blazindave]

makes sense...

i used to work at a Valvoline and we had a Wynn exchanger -> only thing was, we called it a "flush", sold it to customers as a "flush", advertised it as a "flush", etc -- point being that it replaced all the fluid (including in the torque converter), not just whats in the pan and filter... but I think it was actually just the fluid exchanger because it seems like the car had to be on, leading me to believe that it ran off of the tranny's pump... although you did have to hook it up to the battery to give the machine power...

I guess I'm not sure which it was, but I know it was Wynn... point is, make sure you ask and you know for sure which it is before doing the service!