N. Koreans and there Nuclear Proliferation!!!

[pnoiSR20]

Those damn North Koreans who think they are the shit.....are now making a deal with the U.S. to stop their nuclear arsenal. In exchange, they're asking the U.S. and our allies for economic aid.
WTF...they want to control the freakin world now they want our help. Sounds like the old USSR!!!

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by pnoiSR20

Those damn North Koreans who think they are the shit.....are now making a deal with the U.S. to stop their nuclear arsenal. In exchange, they're asking the U.S. and our allies for economic aid.
WTF...they want to control the freakin world now they want our help. Sounds like the old USSR!!!

IMO it's a better course of action that going to war with them. If we can't handle Iraq with the casualties sustained to date, just how will a war with them go down? Remember the Korean War?


Korean War (1950-1953)
Total Servicemenbers (Worldwide) 5,720,000
Battle Deaths 33,686
Other Deaths (In Theater) 2,830
Other Deaths in Service (Non-Theater) 17,730
Non-mortal Woundings 103,284
Living Veterans as of 2001 3,913,749

[tenguzero]

Yes, the key to normalizing relations with North Korea (whatever your definition of "normal" is in respect to North Korea) is to avoid conflict at all costs. Not just because of what the DPRK may or may not have in repect to a nuclear arsenal, but simply because, like bnaylor said, we just can't deal with another war. And we would be the one's to initiate it. Neither China, South Korea, nor Russia will undertake it, because they're already on the "nuclear as long as it's peaceful" side of the fence in respect to N. Korea, and Japan's hands are tied in respect to any attempts at foreign military activities, so the U.S. would be the only ones to push for aggression, and frankly, this administration is on such shaky ground with EVERYBODY as a result of Middle Eastern policy, that it would be a hot day on Pluto before another campaign was undertaken (at least for some time.) So, the only answer remaining is to keep North Korea at the bargaining table until either A. they fold enough to where a mutually understood (and obviously beneficial) agreement can be hammered in stone, b. our demands are met, and they give up their ambitions (for now, at least) or c. their demands are met, and the situation presses on accordingly. Of course, the only real sticking point isn't over the nuclear issue at all, really: it's over when they would receive aid in the form of energy, trade, and goods -- BEFORE they agree to disarm (as they want) or AFTER they agree to disarm (as we want.)

When you get right down to it, the whole thing's really just a pissing match at this point. N. Korea is just being stubborn -- they're far from the "Axis of Evil" label Bush applied to them a couple years ago.

[YogsVR4]

Yeah, there not evil. 25% GDP on military spending http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...of-North-Korea Estimates of millions dead because of famine http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/57740.stm human rights violations http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/...korea/index.do and some real 'Nice guy' type activities http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/arti...136483,00.html

If any country on the planet could qualify under the 'evil' nomenclature, North Korea is it.

[tenguzero]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

Yeah, there not evil. 25% GDP on military spending http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...of-North-Korea Estimates of millions dead because of famine http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/57740.stm human rights violations http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/...korea/index.do and some real 'Nice guy' type activities http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/arti...136483,00.html

If any country on the planet could qualify under the 'evil' nomenclature, North Korea is it.

I stand corrected -- that's some atrocious stuff (apparently I've missed some articles in my search.) Evil? If even half that is true, I'll revoke my previous statement and say it is. A threat to their own people? Again, if even half of that is correct, I'd say so. But I still don't think they're the threat to the outside world some would have us believe. The country, if left to its own devices, will eventually collapse -- but I feel none of the leadership would launch nuclear attacks, seeing as there's many more countries with nuclear arsenals to counter theirs (and thus the fragile balance born of the nuclear age is maintained.) However there's obviously many millions of innocent N. Korean citizens who do and will suffer as a result of their country's actions. Which is why an amicable agreement is even more important. It only reasons that as conditions in the country improve (as a result of aid and trade agreements) then the peoples lot under the government will improve. Particularly under the watchful eye of the parties on the opposite side of an agreement with the DPRK. This will HAVE to be the way, as I just don't see a war with North Korea taking place. There are so many regimes oppressing their people around the world, and we simply cannot afford to go in with guns blazing and fight them all (we're having enough trouble with one Middle Eastern country.) So my answer for the people of N. Korea, if the situation continues to deteriorate even after an agreement (which will eventually happen) is to leave. Just leave the country. If the situation is so horrendous that you're afraid to stay, then leave. I don't see any of the surrounding countries refusing people emigrating from N. Korea, as it'll only serve to weaken the country (something all of its neighbors would like to see, whether they'll admit it or not.)

[twospirits]

What I find interesting is that fact that the US and alot of other countries get all bent out of shape over Iraq/North Korea/Iran etc possibly getting/making Nuclear bombs when among their own allies it has already happened.
Its quite interesting that through deciet, lies and strong arm political tactics nations have set up a Nuclear Weapons program. You might think its Iraq, N.Korea or even Iran, but nope, its Israel.
See article.
Hmmm maybe we should go in and invade them next on the premise of having WMD. But since they never claimed nor deny they have them even though photos were taken and US Intelligence says they do. I find it interesting that they never have signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. So in effect with their no show no tell policy they are not subject to inspections or be threaten with sanctions by the IAEA. No wonder countries around the region also want their program.

TS out

[Cbass]

The US and the UN can rattle the saber all they want, North Korea and South Korea need eachother economically, in a bad way. For all the sanctions and negotiations, they are going to increase trade, and nobody is going to stop them.

[BNaylor]

Here's some interesting data on North Korea.

Population as of 2004 - 22,659,553 million (estimated)

Over 1 million active soldiers and 4.7 million reservists.

That means at least 25% (give or take a few) of the North Korean people are military.

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by twospirits

What I find interesting is that fact that the US and alot of other countries get all bent out of shape over Iraq/North Korea/Iran etc possibly getting/making Nuclear bombs when among their own allies it has already happened.
Its quite interesting that through deciet, lies and strong arm political tactics nations have set up a Nuclear Weapons program. You might think its Iraq, N.Korea or even Iran, but nope, its Israel.

Umm the US gave Israel it's nukes

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by Tehvisseeus

Umm the US gave Israel it's nukes

I don't believe it. How did you come up with this assumption?

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by Tehvisseeus

Umm the US gave Israel it's nukes

Can you provide some proof of this? As far as I know, the US has never given a nuke to anyone (aside from the actual bombings in Japan).

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

I don't believe it. How did you come up with this assumption?

Damn, sorry you're right. I thought that we had given them nukes when in fact we, along with France, just trained there people and gave them the knowhow. http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Is...ke_Nation.html

[twospirits]

Very interesting read, might just explain why we give them so much money each and every year.

TS out

[BNaylor]

On the flip side of the argument concerning Israel, I would not put it past them to have possibly obtained classified documents related to our W80 nukes via espionage. The Pollard case is one example although the issue may not have been with our nuclear weapons technology. But you never know.

Funny how friendly countries to one another spy on each other. The U.S. sent U2 spy planes over Israel when the U.S. suspected Israel was developing a nuclear weapon shortly after the French assistance.

[Cbass]

I know it's from counterpunch, but regardless...

http://www.counterpunch.org/husseini08302004.html

Touchy stuff, and the evidence is there to support these claims.