Acetone in Fuel, part 2

[BlenderWizard]

I really don't know why the other thread was locked, but

Originally Posted by jers99z

I was wondering how many of you have tried the acetone mix with the fuel, and how well has it been working if its working at all. Here in Hawaii the gas prices are still getting higher. they go up like 3 to 5 cents every other day or two. And do any of you think there will be long term affects on the engine. I read the articles that were linked in another thread, was just seeing about any new opinions.

I have not read anything to lead me to believe there are any harmful effects, but it's the people who say they think it's bad that have kept me from doing this. However, know this: many fuel injector cleaners use acetone to some extent in their formulas.

Here is something worth reading:
http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

[jers99z]

I dont know why the thread got locked out, I have read that article that you linked, I was just seeing if anyone here had tried it and what they thought. Im exploring all options for better fuel economy, Had a lot of good info given to me by Jethro for electric fans. 99% sure that will be the next thing I do.

[jeverett]

I did it 2 tanks ago. I added 3.5 oz to my 25 gallon tank. It increased mileage to 24.5 mpg on the highway average speed 80. It went back down some after I was intown and trying to race people and stuff. I havent added any this tank yet, not enough time before work this morning, but I'm putting 2.5-3 oz after I get home.

[White Lightening]

Originally Posted by BlenderWizard

I really don't know why the other thread was locked, but I have not read anything to lead me to believe there are any harmful effects, but it's the people who say they think it's bad that have kept me from doing this. However, know this: many fuel injector cleaners use acetone to some extent in their formulas.

Greetings Blender and others. There are several concerns I have with Acetone.

1. Just like alcohol - Acetone has numerous different concentration levels. Rubbing alcohol used on paint in a 40% solution has a much different effect than when used in a 70% or 90% solution. When you buy alcohol or acetone in stores - it is based on solution percentage densities.

2. Using straight acetone is a different chemical and physical effect than using a product that merely contains acetone in it. I use Acetone as a "fix stopper" in fiberglassing - yet if I poured one of those gas treatments with acetone on my hands to use as a "fix stopper" it wouldn't do anything. Totally different effects because its totally different concentrations and totally different chemical and physical effects and properties.

3. Acetone is used in additives as the "cleaning base" while other components of the additives give other effects. Personally I would be concerned about putting in high dose high concentration cleaners into my truck on a regular basis. Improving longevity is not the phrase that comes to mind.

Think of it this way - lets use Motor Flush as an example - it is used to soften and clean the engine oil area prior to an oil change. It helps get rid the system of accumulated sludge etc. and then you quickly drain the oil with the crap in it. It specifically instructs users to use it only for 5 minutes and ONLY at idle - NEVER use it while the vehicle is in operation - too harsh otherwise and never to be left in the engine longer than for quick flush purposes. And lets remember - Motor Flush is dumped into pure oil and it has that negative of an effect. Think how Acetone is not being dumped into a pure lubrication system. Motor Flush or Acetone both make great cleaners and works well for their purpose. But using bulk acetone in uncontrolled quantities like 3 and 4 ounces per tank is just too high for my opinion.

I read how people buy Acetone at the hardware stores and building supply stores - yet they don't understand or have experience with Acetone's properties and strength. They don't have instructions - so they figure out their own quantities. If this was about a $200 lawnmower engine - thats one thing to experiment with over a couple years to see what it does. But on a beloved truck engine?????

Maybe I've just seen how Acetone takes paint off surfaces too much - seen acetone soften plastic and vinyls and weaken/age rubber too much - see how it is used in its uncontrolled formats. Acetone coming from a paint supply area is NOT the same concentrations or chemical properties that it is in additives. Gasoline is a lubricant even though it has cleaner additives in it from the the petroleum companies - gas is petroleum (oil based). Gas treatment additives have lubricants in them to counterbalance the cleaner harshness of Acetone. Using straight Acetone in gas - has no lubricants to counterbalance its long term negative effects. Acetone is not petroleum based.

Lastly - of course users INITIALLY will see an improvement when dumping bulk Acetone in their gas tanks by the ounces. What they may fail to understand - is that in NEWER engines (last 4 to 6 years) - engines have rubber, sealants, bearings, and plastic components in them that come in contact with the fuel system and can be directly effected by the harshness of "ounces" of Acetone in a 26 gallon tank. Cleaning injectors and the fuel system - make for an obvious initial improvement - it wasn't the Acetone that did it - it was the Acetone cleaning of the crude that made the improvement. The "improved result" should have been the normal level - but the truck was just "system dirty" and artificially caused lower performance. In effect users who dump ounces in their tanks - are SUPER DOSING their systems. In my humble opinion - far far far too high a level for normal use and longevity of our fine motors.

[Rollingbones]

Sorry White Lightening, and with all due respect, I can't agree with you on this one totally.
First, I fully understand that chemicals when mixed or in different concentrations react diferently. However, unless the effects of the Acetone is neutralized with the mixture, it's solvent or cleaning effect is still there, if not in fact enhanced through a catilitic action. How much this is true with B12 and others, I couldn't say for sure, I'm not a chemist.
Second, I hardly consider 3-8 oz to 25 gallons a high concentration. If it was a form of HCl acid or something like that, I could see your point, but remember you even stated that one of the properties of acetone is also a fixer, so I personally could not consider it a high concentration. The attached article (which I posted in the previous thread) stated that testing was done at different concentrations on other materials. Even nail polish in which the acetone portion is pure, comes in plastic bottles, yet acetone can damage plastic. So 3-8 oz in 25 gal's really is not very concentrated. Also the article stated that putting too muck (past 3 oz/10 gal) decreases the effectiveness of the fuel savings. Just my worth!!!
I'm currently just using Chevron gas and will start the test with the next tank.

[White Lightening]

Greetings Rollingbones,

Perfectly fine to have differences of opinion - I thrive on it. One thing though - yes - Acetone is a "freeze or fixer" or stopper of reaction in fiberglassing. However - that is an example of just how strong it is (not that it is less harmful). Acetone will freeze the chemical gel reaction almost instantly. Again - this represents a harshness - not a gentleness. My point is that in gas additive treatments - you may have less than 1/2 ounce of acetone per treatement of 20 gallons. Putting 3 ounces for the same 20 gallons - is a huge change in concentration.

I wouldn't put poor quality or old gas in my tank, I wouldn't put paint thinner in my tank, I won't put straight grain alcohol in my tank, I won't put E-85 in my tank - I don't believe putting pure Acetone in my tank is any more logical. Just my perspective.

If negative effects were to develop - they won't show up immediately - maybe 2 or 3 or 4 years down the road - not a risk I'm willing to accept in a $25,000 unit.

White Lightening

[Rollingbones]

The question I would have at this point is how much acetone is in the amount of Berryman's B-12 need to treat 25 gallons? I just got back from Pep Boys and checked the side of the can. It appears to be one of the larger ingrediants listed. I personally don't see it as a risk or gamble as agian 1.5 to 3 oz per 10 gallons. If it keeps my injectors continuously clean and helps the fuel to burn more effeciently, I can't but believe it does more good than harm. I also think if it helps to keep the fuel system cleaner, that too can help my precious baby run better, longer and cheaper!!! Please trust I don't take protecting my investment lightly. This is why I use good gas, good oil, good filters and do proper maintenance. I also believe each of our desires to keep our machines running well and last longer is there and equal!!!

[White Lightening]

Originally Posted by Rollingbones

This is why I use good gas, good oil, good filters and do proper maintenance. I also believe each of our desires to keep our machines running well and last longer is there and equal!!!

Personally, I think many people are short sighted. Hopefully this forum represents those more long sighted. But even on this forum - you'll see posters talking about switching to lower forms of gas to save pennies - but losing power or mileage by making that decision. Maybe at 50, I'm just too old. I remember all the J.C. Whitney motor "cures" that guys bought - dropping beads of metal in the spark plug holes to improve compression, putting weird odd mixtures in their systems without any awareness of what it was - just because it was in a catalog that promised "instant fix". Remember "hot plugs" - they used to burn holes in the top of piston heads - but you didn't know it till 10,000 miles later.

Putting in a Berryman's or Slick 50 gas treatment, a Mystic Marvel, or whatever - seems like a far cry and a long stretch from going to a paint department and buying pure form single ingredients and "guessing" quantities into your tank. I don't write these posts to argue - personally it doesn't make any difference to my vehicle. What I really want is for every reader to doubt, question, check, recheck, and doubt some more - because once you start doing these type of things - you start gettting effects - whether you "see" them or not, and those effects can be slow but long lasting.

Lets "see" an acetone product on the market - with instructions and ingredients listed - where a company takes financial liability for it if something goes "skunk ugly". right now - people using pure acetone are taking on all the financial risks but may not understand it doesn't show up the first 6 months.

I've seen what acetone does to my hands when I fiberglass - I see how it "dries out" whatever it touches. Gas doesn't have the same properties. GM, Ford, etc. etc. - their power train warranties don't include non-documented additives. I'll quit posting about it - I just want readers to not believe everything they read automatically. Because an article, a report or a study says it doesn't hurt - doesn't mean it doesn't hurt

White Lightening

[White Lightening]

Originally Posted by Rollingbones

The question I would have at this point is how much acetone is in the amount of Berryman's B-12 need to treat 25 gallons? I just got back from Pep Boys and checked the side of the can. It appears to be one of the larger ingrediants listed. I personally don't see it as a risk or gamble as agian 1.5 to 3 oz per 10 gallons.

Just thought I'd check in my garage. I looked at each fuel system or fuel injector cleaner I had in stock. Not a single one listed acetone as an ingredient.

Slick 50 Fuel System formula - metal can - no acetone listed.
Gumout Fuel Injector Cleaner (concentrated) - no acetone listed.
Zecol Engine Tuneup - no acetone listed.
Marvel Super Charged Fuel Injector Cleaner - no acetone listed.
Prestone Winter Fuel System Cleaner - no acetone listed.

White Lightening

[Rollingbones]

Like I said, I'm just trying it as an experiment and this "test" is not a long term commitment. I'd be hard pressed to think a couple of tanks of gas with acetone is going to do any harn. At 52 I'm not exactly a wreckless person. As they say, "I didn't get this far by being stupid!!!" If the gain is menuscal, yeah I definately won't keep doing it, but in the meantime, I will do research and I will ask questions and I will keep looking. Also, if you check the side of a can of Berryman's, you'll find acetone listed, I believe, as the third ingrediant. Obviously, this also something some people have done for a long time and I've yet to find anything negative, but like I said, if I do, I will bring it back here and share as I'd certainly hate to see anyone's ride get damaged. I'm also going to do some research on Berryman's as well to see if there's anything out there, good, bad or indifferent. Rest assured this will be done right!!!

[jveik]

i did that acetone crap with my 73 truck with a 350 in it. it was getting 9 to 10 mpg in the city and it went up to 11 to 12. i bet it was just dirty inside because tanks without acetone after i used it still got 11 to 12 mpg

[broughy84]

The problem with acetone is simply this:

This is what every one thinks, "Hey this is great shit!" or "You will hurt your engine's plastic and rubber componets."

And in all honesty they are OPINIONS and NOT FACTS.

Here's the facts,

Change your plugs, get a nice clean air filter, run synthetic oils, and run a injector cleanser every 15-20 or so tanks of gas, and run the recommended grade of gasoline. Chevrolet, or for that matter any other car manufacturer in the world, did not do YEARS of research to build engines that would perform fantasticly on 87 octane so we as a consumer could go dumping any magical little substance in them to save a few dollars.

In reality White Lightning is correct, problems are not going to show up tommorrow after adding acetone today, they will be years down the road.

As for me, the only thing that I know is safe to put in my GAS tank is Gasoline. This I know or they would not be made to run on it. So this is why I have not and will not ever try Acetone in my vehicles. Call me old fashion, call me a stick in the mud, call me an opinionated asshole, call me anything you want, I won't do it. The Fact is there are NO facts about acetone.

Sorry if I pissed anyone off, this is just my opinion, I am stepping off the soap box now.

[Rollingbones]

I, personally, am not pissed about anything. How sad it would be if we never debated ro disagreed on anything. Like I said, after I try it, I'll see for myself!!!
Just the opinion of another Old Phart!!! Keep the spice coming!!!

[White Lightening]

Originally Posted by Rollingbones

I, personally, am not pissed about anything. How sad it would be if we never debated ro disagreed on anything. Like I said, after I try it, I'll see for myself!!!
Just the opinion of another Old Phart!!! Keep the spice coming!!!

What would be an accurate test (I don't encourage testing of acetone - but if you're going to do it). To be accurate - do it when you will be going in a semi-distant trip - say 400 miles in each direction or so. PRIOR to the trip - use a Slick 50 Fuel System treatment (metal can) and then run that gas thru before the trip. Then you actually now have a test.

1. AFTER your system is thoroughly cleaned out - then start on thr trip using normal gas you use. Track mpg on the trip going. When you come back - use (gulp) the Acetone mixture.

2. Based on other accounts I've read from several - if you have a 98 thru 2005 Chevy Silverado - you should get similar results except for one thing - uncertain negative potential from the Acetone.

This would be the way to truly test the miles per gallon issue. Unfortunately - this will not test or evaluate any short or long term damage that Acetone in its pure form may do to an engine/fuel system with repeated use in mixtures in the 3 to 8 ounces per tank.

But at least we wouldn't be hearing about "sudden" improvements caused because a dirty system got cleaned

I'm not against anybody trying this test on their vehicle - I'm just absolutely against anybody doing it with my vehicle

Here's another test. Take various different metals and plastics and types of rubber and affix them to a board. Then each day - using a paint brush - brush acetone on each of those items for a couple seconds and leave it alone. Do it a few days in a row - dont' douse it - don't need to do it every 10 minutes - just once or twice a day. What you should find - is that the rubbers and vinyl/plastics will gradually lose their gloss. The surface is being "decreased" and on the metals - you'll see an increase in gloss as the metals are exposed completely to the atmosphere. Lightly spray silicone, light oil, or any lubricant on the metals and then brush with acetone - 100% of the lubricant will be stripped off - would be my experience. Gas won't have that effect - but acetone will.

Catch-U-later,

White Lightening

[HanibalTheCannibal]

I am now on an "untreated" tank of gas after running 2 tanks with 30oz. B-12. I have 200 miles on first 1/4 tank, which is up from 165 miles per first 1/4 tank before treatment.

I think it helped to have a cleaning. I will be using Mobil1 synthetic oil next along with an airhog or K&N air filter. I am using 87 octane gas.

**PS I noted better mileage with Citgo gas than with exxon gas. My brother who is a lifelong mechanic has shown me spark plugs from vehicles that undoubtedly used "chevron or exxon" fuels because of the pinkish grey color on the plugs. In his estimation to much detergents are not good and will ruin o2 sensors, plugs etc.