about the 190 pump

[Talon69]

I searched on the forum for what im looking for but could not come up with anything. So what i would like to know, should i go with a 190 pump rewired in my car or go with a 255 pump, without managing my fuel can this be done? And the car run fine still? Im just worried about running to lean when i get ready to bring to the track soon at a higher boost. Only 2 months left of racing at the track

[scottsee]

I posted a few flow rates on the 190 in a post a few days ago. browse down the first page.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...2&page=1&pp=15

190 is more then enought for the evo3

[Talon69]

alright man thanx i see it now, so i will go with the 190 rewired

[kjewer1]

Originally Posted by scottsee

I posted a few flow rates on the 190 in a post a few days ago. browse down the first page.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...2&page=1&pp=15

190 is more then enought for the evo3

The only problem I see with your numbers on the other page is that it would be impossible to flow that kind of air at 15 psi. For example, a 190 at 11:1 and 25 psi, which is where you would need to run a ev3 to get that flow, can only support ~38 lbs/min. Not enough. Even at 12:1 with a SG ov .724 its not quite enough. At 20 psi there is probably just enough fuel. People with this turbo run the 190 and get away with it, but I would not say there is more than enough fuel for the evo3. If someone plans to max out that turbos airflow, its not going to fly. Same for 550s, you're looking at 40 and 42 lbs capacity using the above scenarios. Pretty close, until you start to max out the turbo.

[scottsee]

Absolutly. The only reasion I was using 15psi as an example was becasue where he was setting his boost at. Your right, might had been a better example if it were in real world #'s. Evo3's flowing 40lb/min will start to outrun the 190 around 25psi. Depending on what their burn rate is. 90% of people runing that turbo will be hard press to get that far. But never the less your right.

[Talon69]

man not sure now, lol so it is a waste of money to go with the pump right now? When i was messing around a little on the street i was running at 22psi and was getting cut out in 3rd at 5500rpm so i turned it down to 20 psi and it was fine. But probably running lean correct? But i usually just keep it around 18psi unless im going to race someone.

Thanx Eric

Im just still trying to learn everything like you scottee and 95gsxracer, i have along way to go, i have been reading alot of shit but still not sure.
Only mods i have done are evo3 big 16g port and polished with 34 mm flapper, 3 inch turbo back exhaust, filter, 1g bov uncrushed,all free mods, all new IC piping, still on stock IC, will have one in a month. Manual boost control, triple pod,thats about it for now i think.

[DragonofBC]

I notice you don't have a logger but the only thing you have over me is a 3" exhaust. I start getting knock around 14 psi. I assume that since your car flows air better, you can boost a little more but at 18-20 psi, I'll venture a guess that you're shortening the lifespan of your engine. I don't see a mention of a rewire either so I'd be cautious.

[Talon69]

yeah i know, thats why i did this thread to make sure i can run the 190 rewired or worth getting i should say.

[scottsee]

Its worth getting if you don't have any further intentions with your car. Its a good budget pump becasue they dont require anything more then a simple rewire. The flow rates match well to the 16g's. If you ever intend on flowing more then 40lb/min + air, you should just upgrade your pump once and go with a 255 and AFPR.

[91clipsedude]

Originally Posted by DragonofBC

I notice you don't have a logger but the only thing you have over me is a 3" exhaust. I start getting knock around 14 psi. I assume that since your car flows air better, you can boost a little more but at 18-20 psi, I'll venture a guess that you're shortening the lifespan of your engine. I don't see a mention of a rewire either so I'd be cautious.

Whoa hold on a minute. With the mods he has done 18-20 psi WOULD NOT BE SMART! a 190 rewired would be very sufficent to run with a evo. I ran a 190 on my 95 gst with a complete evo setup. Complete meaning ported evo manifold, ported evo turbo, ported evo 02 evo 510cc inj and afc. I never ran more than 18 psi. I couldve stepped up to 550cc or 660 injectors and ran higher. And I did in my 98 gsx with same setup on a 6 bolt. But I also upgraded to a 255 and afpr. Unless your going for more than 300hp a 190 will be JUST FINE!!! If you want more than 300 hp without mass tuning your wasting your time on the evo. Remember, just uppin the F\P doesnt mean turn up the boost! Uppin the Inj, getting a f\c and uppin the f\p will allow you to do it SAFELY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Talon69]

well thanx for the knowledge guys, im just gonna get the 190 for now, because it would be a while til i can save up for a fuel managment system and bigger injectors, and a few other things. This winter i am buying new body parts and coverting to ECLIPSE. Thanx again guys. I will let you all know hopefully buy next week what my new 1/4 mile times are, be 1st time running on track with turbo upgrade and a few other parts added, also my buddy is bringing his evo up so i will let you know 95gsxracer what he does, only light mods done on his so far.

[kjewer1]

Originally Posted by 91clipsedude

Whoa hold on a minute. With the mods he has done 18-20 psi WOULD NOT BE SMART! a 190 rewired would be very sufficent to run with a evo. I ran a 190 on my 95 gst with a complete evo setup. Complete meaning ported evo manifold, ported evo turbo, ported evo 02 evo 510cc inj and afc. I never ran more than 18 psi. I couldve stepped up to 550cc or 660 injectors and ran higher. And I did in my 98 gsx with same setup on a 6 bolt. But I also upgraded to a 255 and afpr. Unless your going for more than 300hp a 190 will be JUST FINE!!! If you want more than 300 hp without mass tuning your wasting your time on the evo. Remember, just uppin the F\P doesnt mean turn up the boost! Uppin the Inj, getting a f\c and uppin the f\p will allow you to do it SAFELY!!!!!!!!!!!

At 18 psi a stock pump is nearly enough. I may not be the typical DSMer, but I don't bother running a turbo unless I plan to max it out. I've had the EVO8 turbo maxed out for months now. By maxed out I mean I remove the vac line going to the wastegate actuator to get the highest possible boost it will run before the exhaust manifold pressure blows the wastegate open. If a vac line blows off this is exactly what will happen to any car. I always size the fuel pump to the maximum airflow the turbo can do, the fuel being used, and a safe AFR. If anything goes wrong, boost can do whatever it wants, but the motor will still live. Not providing enough headroom for these kinds of situations is risky business. I did it for years of course, but I learned my lesson

Also note that the need for an AFPR has nothing to do with rasing fuel pressure. I Don't recomend raising the fuel pressure, ever. More pressure makes the injectors bigger, but the pump smaller. Lowering fuel pressure makes the pump bigger but the injectors smaller. I Dont ever recomend changing fuel pressure from what the ECU expects it to be for ease of tuning. It can effectively be used as a bandaid for small injectors but you better be sure you have done the math to ensure you aren't making things worse at the pump...

[Talon69]

man you do know your shit Kevin, thanx alot man for the great info

[91clipsedude]

Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer

At 18 psi a stock pump is nearly enough. I may not be the typical DSMer, but I don't bother running a turbo unless I plan to max it out. I've had the EVO8 turbo maxed out for months now. By maxed out I mean I remove the vac line going to the wastegate actuator to get the highest possible boost it will run before the exhaust manifold pressure blows the wastegate open. If a vac line blows off this is exactly what will happen to any car. I always size the fuel pump to the maximum airflow the turbo can do, the fuel being used, and a safe AFR. If anything goes wrong, boost can do whatever it wants, but the motor will still live. Not providing enough headroom for these kinds of situations is risky business. I did it for years of course, but I learned my lesson

Also note that the need for an AFPR has nothing to do with rasing fuel pressure. I Don't recomend raising the fuel pressure, ever. More pressure makes the injectors bigger, but the pump smaller. Lowering fuel pressure makes the pump bigger but the injectors smaller. I Dont ever recomend changing fuel pressure from what the ECU expects it to be for ease of tuning. It can effectively be used as a bandaid for small injectors but you better be sure you have done the math to ensure you aren't making things worse at the pump...

Not sure where in this thread anyone is recommending raising or lowering fuel pressure with a afpr. Most people who run 255 pumps on their clipses know that there STOCK fpr regulator will be overrun. Thats when you need a aftermarket fpr. By the way it sounds this kid isnt wanting to max out anything, just have a faster ride. Thats why a 190 will be fine for him. He wont be running 18psi if hes smart with stock injectors. and aftermarket fpr is a smart idea for anyone running a 255 f\p or larger. It gives you that much more flexiblity to adj accordingly to any situation you might have.

[kjewer1]

Originally Posted by 91clipsedude

Not sure where in this thread anyone is recommending raising or lowering fuel pressure with a afpr. Most people who run 255 pumps on their clipses know that there STOCK fpr regulator will be overrun. Thats when you need a aftermarket fpr. By the way it sounds this kid isnt wanting to max out anything, just have a faster ride. Thats why a 190 will be fine for him. He wont be running 18psi if hes smart with stock injectors. and aftermarket fpr is a smart idea for anyone running a 255 f\p or larger. It gives you that much more flexiblity to adj accordingly to any situation you might have.

Originally Posted by 91clipsedude

Remember, just uppin the F\P doesnt mean turn up the boost! Uppin the Inj, getting a f\c and uppin the f\p will allow you to do it SAFELY!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, you lost me. You're the one that mentioned raising fuel pressure unless "uppin the f/p" meant something else. Hard to tell with the PlaySkool engrish. Forgive me if I misunderstood.