Im a DSMer wanting to buy a civic project car....heres some of my ideas and questions

[vanilla gorilla]

Hey y'all. I have aways and am currently into DSM's but I have always like Hondas too. I currently own a 99 eclipse spyder and a 2003 silverado that is for sale. After I sell it I think I am going to buy me a civic for a project car. I have always liked the 92-95 body style. I think I want a sedan and I know I dont want a hatch. I want to buy a cheap one that needs work, because I love working on cars.
Here are some of my ideas. I think I want to do a swap, but instead of going with the normal b series swap, i think i want to do a k 20 type s motor. Does any companies offer mounts for this swap? How difficult would this swap be? I also want the car to be full interior, not stripped down. I like the look of the OEM JDM body parts but I think I want to go with a bodykit. Does anyone know of any NICE not RICE looking bodykits for the sedan? BTW I dont want any cheap knock off bodykit from those discount ads in tuner mags.

Any help and ideas would be appreciated.

[ZedEx]

The K20A2 (RSX Type-S/JDM Civic Si) is by no means a simple swap... It's difficult, and look to spend around $7,000+ for the entire swap. I wouldn't recommend doing this swap, unless you feel like spending unneccesary money. You NEED a lift, due to the fact that the engine can't drop 'in', it has to be installed from below. You need some VERY expensive mounts from HASport, you need either a custom made Header, or HASport header that clears the Civic Firewall... It's a ton of work, and it's no fun.

I'd say, do an H22 swap. We've done two in our Civic's so far (Look at the H22 Sticky at the top of the 92-95 Civic forum, look at my posts on the last page). The H22 is an amazing powertrain to have in a Civic, it absolutely pulls like a monster.

As for your body... I'd say leave the stock front bumper, it looks pretty Damn good in my opinion. Buy a OEM Civic EX/Si front lip ($130 some odd Brand New... You can find them used). Or if you feel like something a bit more, go with a Mugen/Type R/Jun knock off... I think they look great. Go with some 1996-1998 OEM Side Skirts, they bolt right in, and just have to be cut down about 2inches to fit the body lines correctly. I think the Mugen Rear Lip looks great... It's nice and simple, nothing crazy looking.

And go with a nice set of 15" Wheels, Rota, Buddy Club, etc... Personally I'm partial to the Civic HX 14" wheels. They're light as Hell, and look pretty good for stock wheels. I have two sets for some reason

Please keep in mind, when you're more than doubling or tripling power... Suspension and proper Brake set-up is an absolute MUST... On my 1992 DX Hatchback, I have LS front brakes, GSR rear brakes, and we're building the Suspension right now (Koni Yellow struts, SKUNK2 Front/Rear Camber Kit, Eibach Front/Rear sway bars, JHPUSA rear subframe spacers, and we're still figuring out what type or Springs we're going to use). It has a GSR (B18C1) Powertrain in it, with AEBS Intake Manifold, Edelbrock Header, and a few other things here and there. The car definately gets squirelly when opening it up... Which is why it's parked until the Suspension and Brakes are taken care of. Just keep that in mind. It doesn't matter how much power you have, if you're in a ditch rolled over.

That's just what I'd suggest... By all means do what you want.

(By the way... Your car isn't a DSM )

-Wes

[vanilla gorilla]

Thanks for the help. Roughly, how much would I be looking at spending on an H22 swap?

BTW......where I am from we have always called the eclipse, talon, lasers DSM's.....what are they calling them now?

[ZedEx]

Eclipse, Lasers, and Talons WERE Diamond Star Motors vehicles until 1993... Mitsubishi bought out DSM completely after that.

As for the H22 Swap... We charge around $3,000 installed (Every H-Series swap is different). If you want to do it yourself, have the tools, have the space, have the time, and have the money. You can find a good H22 powertrain for $1,500-$2,000. Expect around $300 or so for shipping, depending on where it's located. You'll have to purchase mounts, I would recommend NEVER cheaping out on the mounts you buy. Personally, our shop sticks with either Avid, or HASport. Look at spending $600+ on the mounts.The shift linkage is another fun part... Seeming as you have to adapt the shifter plate to fit. The H22 Transmission is Cable, so that's the only place you run into an issue.

So as you can see... We don't make much profit at all. People hear our price, and they say "NO WAY! I can get the engine and transmission for $1,500!". What they don't relize is what else is involved.

There's a bit of wiring, nothing too crazy. You can find all the diagrams and information you need on Honda-Tech. Make sure you SEARCH extensively, before you post.

The swap isn't that hard. Just take your time, and you can save a lot of money.

-Wes

[vanilla gorilla]

thanks....that should really help out my future project.
But we still call them DSM's

[eckoman_pdx]

Okay, for the body for 92-95 civic 4 door.

A 92-95 2 dr coupe rear bumper will bolt on and fit a 92-95 4 door sedan. So any body kit rear bumper for the coupe should fit fine. Also, the same goes for the tailights, 2 and 4 doors share the same. Bomex, Wings West, and a few others also make side skirts for the 4 door (if you don't mind knocks offs the selction is greater).

The front is a different story. Bomex makes fiberglass front bumpers for the 4 door, and a few other companies do too. If you want Urethane, you'll have to by a "knock-off" company like versus motorsports for the front bumper.

There is also another opinion. The 92-95 civics share a commen hood and headlights. It's the corner lamps, front bumpers and fenders which differ on them. If you change the fenders to the 2 door fenders, and the corner lights to the 2 door version, this should allow you to put on a 2 door front bumper, and there are plenty of these that are non-knock off. This would give you great front bumper selction as well as rear bumper. Also, you'll likly need to loose or cut into the front reinforcment bar if you do this...but if you put on a body kit you'll need to do this anyways.

As for a K20, Hasport has mounts, but this swap is a wiring nightmare. Sport Compact car had an aritcle on putting it into the EK awhile ago. If you seriously want to tackle that swap, it's possible but far from as easy as a b series. It would make you unique though, if that makes a difference.

If you get an H22...upgrade the radiator. Get a thicker core one like a Koyo and a FAL fan or put in a teg radiator. As was said, you'll need to upgrade your brakes and suspension also. This would need to be done with a K20 swap anyways though. For brakes...AT LEAST get powerslot rotors and axxiss metal master pads or eqaul. If you had a DX to start (or a model with the 9.44" rotors) swapping on bigger brakes, like from an Si hatch, EX, Teg would help too. Big brakes work but some call it overkill. If you do that bolt a teg master cylinder to the brake booster. The above should be fine...especially with slotted rotors and upgraded pads. You can also consider swapping on discs in the rear. You'll need a new prop valve for this.

Here's advice on wheels. Figure out what brakes you want BEFORE you get some wheels, especially if you intend on putting on something bigger for the breaks. You want to make sure the wheels are big enough to clear the calipers on a bigger brake system (whether it be teg brakes, Si, or big brakes, etc). Also, I always felt on a 1992-95 civic, anything over 17" looks too big. The right 17" wheels when paired with the right body comp can look nice, but I always though 18" looks too big. For this reason I tend to show on my 17's and not 18's. It's up to you though as to what size and design you want.

Also, remember...if you buy civic springs, the rates for those were designed with the stock CIVIC motor in mind. If you swap the motor, I suggest putting in stiffer. Teg springs and coilovers will bolt right onto a 92-95 civic, and would be a better idea. If you go H22 or K20 versus the B series, I'd look at going a little stiffer than the teg spring rates. If you plan on lowering the car over 2", go with either true coilovers like Tein, H & R, Apex'i, etc...or get Koni yellow sport shocks. Koni yellows are some of the only shocks capiable of handling over a 2" drop. The max drop Tokico's can handle (and the max drop they will still warrenty their shocks with) is 1.75" on a 92-95. With the Koni yellows, the SP3 Nuespeed spec onles have a 5 way perch vs a 3 way perch, a 20mm shorter shaft and a little stiffer valving. Also, don't forget to cut your bumpstops in half when you do the suspension. You don't want to re-install them without cutting them in half, as you will be riding the bumpstops otherwise (not good).

Don't go too big on a rear sway bar, not bigger than 18mm max. You don't want to tear out the subframe. This is more of an issue on the EK (96-00) civics but still, I've seen it happen and it's not pretty. YOu can ask SilverY2KCivic about that. For the front sway, most will say don't run one or run no bigger than an EX/Si one. This is because a bigger front sway will create more understeer.

Koni also carries some very nice off the shelf racing shocks. These yellows are indentified by SPSS3. The feature the SPSS3 vavling, adjustable rebound (like nomral yellows), and they have shorter shock bodies...25mm front and 15mm rear. They are spendy though, around $1000 per set. But they are true race shocks if you need such.

As for full interior...don't be affraid to do work yourself. I work for an uphostery shop. If you know how to sew at all and have an air compressor thats a big plus there. Also, if you get a model without a tach and don't like those monster ones (like I don't), you can swap in an EX/Si hatch cluster. Those had a tach and will literally plug right in and work. You'll need to take your old cluster AND the new cluster to a speedo shop though so you can have the milegae properly set. They won't do it without both clusters, and they need to make sure it's not odometer fraud.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions let me know.

[blackcomet]

Well this is just my opinion and i'm not hear to argue anybody but I would say if you have the money and the ressources, get the K20 but not from the TypeS, from the TYPE R...I have seen these for sell for $7000CDN shipped but obviously you still need the mounts. There are not that mnay people in America with that swap and it has a lot of power but again it has to do with your budget and ressources. that's teh swap i'm savin for but again i'm not sayin it only because i'm doin it..any way, good luck with your project!!

[vanilla gorilla]

Thanks for all the help everyone. I have been thinking alot lately about this project (still havent sold my truck yet). As for the engine, as much as i would love to stick in a k20 type-s or type-r, I think I am just gonna do a simple b-series and bolt on every part I can think of. As for the wheels, either 16's or 17's will be what I will use.

[Ace$nyper]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

Okay, for the body for 92-95 civic 4 door.

A 92-95 2 dr coupe rear bumper will bolt on and fit a 92-95 4 door sedan. So any body kit rear bumper for the coupe should fit fine. Also, the same goes for the tailights, 2 and 4 doors share the same. Bomex, Wings West, and a few others also make side skirts for the 4 door (if you don't mind knocks offs the selction is greater).

The front is a different story. Bomex makes fiberglass front bumpers for the 4 door, and a few other companies do too. If you want Urethane, you'll have to by a "knock-off" company like versus motorsports for the front bumper.

There is also another opinion. The 92-95 civics share a commen hood and headlights. It's the corner lamps, front bumpers and fenders which differ on them. If you change the fenders to the 2 door fenders, and the corner lights to the 2 door version, this should allow you to put on a 2 door front bumper, and there are plenty of these that are non-knock off. This would give you great front bumper selction as well as rear bumper. Also, you'll likly need to loose or cut into the front reinforcment bar if you do this...but if you put on a body kit you'll need to do this anyways.

As for a K20, Hasport has mounts, but this swap is a wiring nightmare. Sport Compact car had an aritcle on putting it into the EK awhile ago. If you seriously want to tackle that swap, it's possible but far from as easy as a b series. It would make you unique though, if that makes a difference.

If you get an H22...upgrade the radiator. Get a thicker core one like a Koyo and a FAL fan or put in a teg radiator. As was said, you'll need to upgrade your brakes and suspension also. This would need to be done with a K20 swap anyways though. For brakes...AT LEAST get powerslot rotors and axxiss metal master pads or eqaul. If you had a DX to start (or a model with the 9.44" rotors) swapping on bigger brakes, like from an Si hatch, EX, Teg would help too. Big brakes work but some call it overkill. If you do that bolt a teg master cylinder to the brake booster. The above should be fine...especially with slotted rotors and upgraded pads. You can also consider swapping on discs in the rear. You'll need a new prop valve for this.

Here's advice on wheels. Figure out what brakes you want BEFORE you get some wheels, especially if you intend on putting on something bigger for the breaks. You want to make sure the wheels are big enough to clear the calipers on a bigger brake system (whether it be teg brakes, Si, or big brakes, etc). Also, I always felt on a 1992-95 civic, anything over 17" looks too big. The right 17" wheels when paired with the right body comp can look nice, but I always though 18" looks too big. For this reason I tend to show on my 17's and not 18's. It's up to you though as to what size and design you want.

Also, remember...if you buy civic springs, the rates for those were designed with the stock CIVIC motor in mind. If you swap the motor, I suggest putting in stiffer. Teg springs and coilovers will bolt right onto a 92-95 civic, and would be a better idea. If you go H22 or K20 versus the B series, I'd look at going a little stiffer than the teg spring rates. If you plan on lowering the car over 2", go with either true coilovers like Tein, H & R, Apex'i, etc...or get Koni yellow sport shocks. Koni yellows are some of the only shocks capiable of handling over a 2" drop. The max drop Tokico's can handle (and the max drop they will still warrenty their shocks with) is 1.75" on a 92-95. With the Koni yellows, the SP3 Nuespeed spec onles have a 5 way perch vs a 3 way perch, a 20mm shorter shaft and a little stiffer valving. Also, don't forget to cut your bumpstops in half when you do the suspension. You don't want to re-install them without cutting them in half, as you will be riding the bumpstops otherwise (not good).

Don't go too big on a rear sway bar, not bigger than 18mm max. You don't want to tear out the subframe. This is more of an issue on the EK (96-00) civics but still, I've seen it happen and it's not pretty. YOu can ask SilverY2KCivic about that. For the front sway, most will say don't run one or run no bigger than an EX/Si one. This is because a bigger front sway will create more understeer.

Koni also carries some very nice off the shelf racing shocks. These yellows are indentified by SPSS3. The feature the SPSS3 vavling, adjustable rebound (like nomral yellows), and they have shorter shock bodies...25mm front and 15mm rear. They are spendy though, around $1000 per set. But they are true race shocks if you need such.

As for full interior...don't be affraid to do work yourself. I work for an uphostery shop. If you know how to sew at all and have an air compressor thats a big plus there. Also, if you get a model without a tach and don't like those monster ones (like I don't), you can swap in an EX/Si hatch cluster. Those had a tach and will literally plug right in and work. You'll need to take your old cluster AND the new cluster to a speedo shop though so you can have the milegae properly set. They won't do it without both clusters, and they need to make sure it's not odometer fraud.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions let me know.

+1

Thats quite a novel! Alot of really good info worth the read

This whole thread reminds me of the old AF

me I'll add in read up on lower budget *then K* GSR swaps fits in like a dream and really great to work with.