Indeniable proof

[twospirits]

Question.

If all of a sudden there came about some indeniable proof that religion is just myths or tales, what would that do to your beliefs and your faith whatever it may be. Strengthen it, cause chaos, what?

For example,
scenario 1.
A new discovery of numerous ancient text (much like the dead sea scrolls) are found throughout the world which would link and substanciate the claim that all religions came from one or one tale. And that this tale was created by a man to take control over their subjects.

Scenario 2
We get visited (however unlikely) by beings outside our world, that claim we were populated among hundreds through the galaxy by said beings.

there might be other scenarios, but those are the only two that come to mind.

TS out

you know, I never thaught of that. I think I would not believe it, and I would stand by what I believe. I wouldent chang my beliefs cuz of a piece of paper, and if another bieng came to us and said that, I defentaly wouldnot believe them. I would think they were tha antichrist or something. I really dont think a scroll or another bieng is proof one way or tha other....

[eversio11]

That's exactly it, religion has such a hold over people that every way out is shot down. Alien visitors? "They're the Antichrist" Undeniable proof in an old scroll? "Written by the Antichrist".

It sounds like a child is arguing almost

all I am saying there is no undeniable proof on this. A scroll or of tha like had to be written by man, right. Well, it is tha opnion of that person who wrote it. Who is to say he is write or wrong. We wernt there at tha time. We cant say it is 100% proof eather way. But it will not change my opnion on what I believe. As far as tha alien, if one comes down and says that to me or us, that does not mean he is right or tellin tha truth. He could be full of it and just tryin to control us himself, So I wouldent believe him either.

[Muscletang]

Well considering my religion has proof of its own I'm not worrying.

In the Bible, Noah built the ark. Guess what, they found it.

DNA evidence has shown us that Christ was real and walked the Earth.

Evidence and indeniable proof swings both ways people not just in your favor.

See the thing is not all religions could come from one man. Christianity is only 2005 years old. It was formed by Christ's followers. So put against other religions like Jewdism then Christianity is rather young. So not all religions could come from one man and that scenario is out the window.

As for the other thing I'd like proof of that. If we were some science experiment then show me. Show me on other planets where you made people like us and how you did it. Saying it won't make it true.

thats what I am tryin to say, Just did not have tha right words...

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by twospirits

Question.

If all of a sudden there came about some indeniable proof that religion is just myths or tales, what would that do to your beliefs and your faith whatever it may be. Strengthen it, cause chaos, what?

For example,
scenario 1.
A new discovery of numerous ancient text (much like the dead sea scrolls) are found throughout the world which would link and substanciate the claim that all religions came from one or one tale. And that this tale was created by a man to take control over their subjects.

Scenario 2
We get visited (however unlikely) by beings outside our world, that claim we were populated among hundreds through the galaxy by said beings.

there might be other scenarios, but those are the only two that come to mind.

TS out

What if ?????

If your faith is just based what you have read in books and not based on any of your own experience with the one you have faith in then anything may sway you from your faith.

Hey everybody. Jesus is over here. Come and see.

[lazysmurff]

hes not offering proof, he's asking what you would do if you were faced with proof. its a hypothetical.

it is a big "what if" game, but at least do him the favor of playing along, or dont respond at all. especially with the "my religion has undeniable proof that it is real" nonsense. i mean really.

christ was a real man. everyone knows that. he was crucified for for what he believed and, as it turns out, was a pretty fly guy. but DNA evidence doesnt make him the son of God. if anything else, it takes him even more out of myth and into reality.

and yeah, they found a big boat that turns out to date back to about the same time the "flood" was supposed to happen, but i hate to burst your bubble, it certainly wasnt big enough to hold two of every animal on earth, and given the dimensions in the bible, every species on earth would have had less than a cubic inch of space.

thats all hardly undeniable truth. so just play along.

ok. if this was to be true I still would not believe it. I would stand my ground...

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

it is a big "what if" game, but at least do him the favor of playing along, or dont respond at all. especially with the "my religion has undeniable proof that it is real" nonsense. i mean really.

What nonsense? Simple knowledge of my religion shot scenerio 1 out of the water. I don't think that's all nonsense. Also, my religion deals with Christ, he was real, what more "undeniable proof" do you want? The rest is all up to faith, which I'm proud to have.

[twospirits]

Originally Posted by DGB454

Hey everybody. Jesus is over here. Come and see.

Where? Get out of my way, out out, out damn it I'm a mod, out of the way.
ummm, You mean that piece of toast with the smudged jelly?

Seriously, I think some of you are reading too much into this or have misread what I was trying to say/write. I am not saying I have proof or that there is proof, I am saying what if all of a sudden came undeniable proof that all the religions came from one story and that story was a myth/tale. Would that put your faith in jeopardy or would you continue having faith and believing.

Now I will agree with some that no matter what is shown or learned (if any of my two scenarios were to happen) that people would continue to believe in their faith or maybe not, this is why I asked the question to get a feeling of such a scenario. Now, one cannot dispute the fact that if Jesus of Nazareth were to happen today that most would either put him in a nut house or call him a antichrist or worse. Back then, the Jews did not believe in the messiah and thus led to the events that got the man cruxified. Whos to say that history will not repeat itself.

Now what I am about to say could be another thread, but I'll add it to this one. Christians/Catholics believe in the coming of Christ, but the way I see it, anyone or anything that comes to us claiming they are Christ will be shot down as a nut job. So will the prophecy ever be fulfilled or will the story/coming continue forever?

If I were a religous man and believed in my faith, I do not think nothing shown to me would deter me from my religion or practice of it. This is the reason why I posed the original (hypothetical) question, to see if I am right about this assumption.

TS out

[ghetto7o2azn]

Originally Posted by karmacae

all I am saying there is no undeniable proof on this. A scroll or of tha like had to be written by man, right. Well, it is tha opnion of that person who wrote it. Who is to say he is write or wrong. We wernt there at tha time. We cant say it is 100% proof eather way.

the bible was also written by man.. which would mean it is also "tha opnion of that person who wrote it" in this case people...

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Well considering my religion has proof of its own I'm not worrying.

where?

Originally Posted by Muscletang

In the Bible, Noah built the ark. Guess what, they found it.

already said... it doesnt match up to the bible, only the time period.. im sure that there was more than one boat built at the time

Originally Posted by Muscletang

DNA evidence has shown us that Christ was real and walked the Earth.

yes, i believe he was real... but the son of god? thats not proven

also, sidhartha (sp?) was also real... but that doesnt prove that budists are correct either..

Originally Posted by Muscletang

As for the other thing I'd like proof of that. If we were some science experiment then show me. Show me on other planets where you made people like us and how you did it. Saying it won't make it true.

thats the exact same thing im saying about religion... id like proof of him.. but no one has that do they? there is also no proof that he doesnt exist which is why there are so many topics about religion.. but practically everything you said could be said against religion as well

imo, the bible is a book of legends... obviously, there definately are some factual things in the bible, like the existence of Jesus... but like you said... this was 2005 years ago... natural wonders could have easily been mistaken for acts of God just because they could not be explained...

Originally Posted by Muscletang

What nonsense? Simple knowledge of my religion shot scenerio 1 out of the water. I don't think that's all nonsense. Also, my religion deals with Christ, he was real, what more "undeniable proof" do you want? The rest is all up to faith, which I'm proud to have.

as i already said.. buddah was real too.. i guess thats undeniable proof that buddism is the right way to go as well..

the whole thread is WHAT IF... yet you keep saying.. no im right, that could never happen.. truthfully, i find you very narrow minded... we are not trying to prove you wrong, we are just asking what would u do if it happened..

its like us saying.. what would u do, if you totalled your car tomorrow?? ... even if you werent going to drive tomorrow and leave the car parked in the garage all day, i doubt u would respond with the same mindframe... its a WHAT IF as it probably wont happen... since this is the Philosophizing section..

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by twospirits

Where? Get out of my way, out out, out damn it I'm a mod, out of the way.
ummm, You mean that piece of toast with the smudged jelly?

Seriously, I think some of you are reading too much into this or have misread what I was trying to say/write. I am not saying I have proof or that there is proof, I am saying what if all of a sudden came undeniable proof that all the religions came from one story and that story was a myth/tale. Would that put your faith in jeopardy or would you continue having faith and believing.

I think I did answer that in a round about way. (or at least attempted too) When you put your faith in a book and that book is proven wrong then you will loose your faith. If you put your faith is someone you actually know (I mean really know and not just know of.) then what can shake that faith? The book then becomes a tool for understanding and not the object of your faith.

Now I will agree with some that no matter what is shown or learned (if any of my two scenarios were to happen) that people would continue to believe in their faith or maybe not, this is why I asked the question to get a feeling of such a scenario. Now, one cannot dispute the fact that if Jesus of Nazareth were to happen today that most would either put him in a nut house or call him a antichrist or worse. Back then, the Jews did not believe in the messiah and thus led to the events that got the man cruxified. Whos to say that history will not repeat itself.

Who is to say? Depends on who/what you place your faith in. If you place your faith in Christ then he is the one who said history won't repeat itself in that situation.

Now what I am about to say could be another thread, but I'll add it to this one. Christians/Catholics believe in the coming of Christ, but the way I see it, anyone or anything that comes to us claiming they are Christ will be shot down as a nut job. So will the prophecy ever be fulfilled or will the story/coming continue forever?

People would treat him as a nut job and rightfully so. Especially if you are a Christian. Will Christ come again? Yes. Not as a man and not in secret. Paraphrase from the Bible {Some will come to you and say "The lord is over here" or "The lord is in the mountains come and see." Don't be fooled.} It's written in prophecy about Him and spoken by Him in His own words that He will come again. Everyone will see Him at the same time when he comes.(If you believe in that sort of thing)

If I were a religous man and believed in my faith, I do not think nothing shown to me would deter me from my religion or practice of it. This is the reason why I posed the original (hypothetical) question, to see if I am right about this assumption.

TS out

I am a religous man(big suprise huh?) and I do believe in my faith.Or should I say I have faith in my belief? If I didn't it wouldn't really be faith would it? It would simply be religion. That's the big problem with a lot of religions. Too much faith is placed on them and not enough is placed upon the reason for that religion. Religion becomes the object of peoples faith just as the Bible becomes the object of peoples faith. If either are proven wrong then their faith is shattered.


Anyway....This is a good subject. Hopefully I haven't mucked it up too much.

[Rally Sport]

I will say that if someone or something gave us undeniable proof then I know I would be like "Dude.. thats gay" and not believe in it anymore obviously. But this has to be like proof that is totally undeniable which in this what if case would be. So I would not believe anymore.

[-GS-]

Well considering my religion has proof of its own I'm not worrying.

In the Bible, Noah built the ark. Guess what, they found it.

Also for the Bible, as mentioned before it was written by a person, but there was a committee that chose what stories made it into the bible and which ones didnt.

They found a big boat, but they say that there is proof that there was a man that put all his belongings in a big boat and sailed down the river during the flood season. They say that is why many religions have a similar story of a great flood and a great big boat.

DNA evidence has shown us that Christ was real and walked the Earth.

Sure there may have been a guy named Jesus Christ, but there is another person who did almost the same miracles as jesus did, but alot earlier, the name escapes me now, but they say that Jesus may have been based off of this guy.

Evidence and indeniable proof swings both ways people not just in your favor.

See the thing is not all religions could come from one man. Christianity is only 2005 years old. It was formed by Christ's followers. So put against other religions like Jewdism then Christianity is rather young. So not all religions could come from one man and that scenario is out the window.

Yeh but try to think of it like the whole starting of the world as a big continent and everyone came from the middle east (a well known theory.) They all split up, and over many many many years the skin colors changed, the languages changed, the accents changed, and the features changed. Now apply that to religion. Imagine one major religion, and they seperated and as time went on, more and more changes came between them. So although Christianity didnt come from Jewdism, it indirectly still came from a main religion.

As for the other thing I'd like proof of that. If we were some science experiment then show me. Show me on other planets where you made people like us and how you did it. Saying it won't make it true.

Im pretty sure this is a hypothetical situation, but lets say they did prove with a scientific experiment how this all worked out, how would you feel then?


Im sorry to break apart and try to analyze everything you've said, and im sure what i've said will make very little difference to your religious beliefs, as would anything you said about my religion (Sikh), or as a matter of fact anyone with any amount of proof, I just thought i'd post it up anyways.