94 sunbird will not start, electrical problem

[meneermalik]

Please help. I desperately need my car tomorrow morning and need to fix this today.

I have a 1994 pontiac sunbird LE, 4 door, 4 cyl. It normally works fine except for today. I drove the car yesterday and it worked fine and started fine. This morning I inserted the ignition key and as soon as I turned it all the electrical power just shut off. I took the key out and looked to make sure my cables were attached securely to the battery and they were. I tried again and this time if I just turned the key a little bit(before the actual starting of the engine) the power would flicker and gradually fade in and then was fine. The radio work, the wipers etc. But it would make a clicking sound while doing this while the power was coming back, (tick,tick,tick,tick,tick).

When the power was back to normal the clicks would stop. When i tried to start the car, the power would fade out again completely and the clicks would start up again for a few seconds and die off. The starter doesnt move at all. I listened in the engine compartment to see where it was coming from and it seems to me that it may be coming from several sides in the engine compartment, but I may be wrong. Please help, I'm pretty handy at repairing the car when I know whats wrong. Thanks.

[GTP Dad]

Three possibilities, bad ground, bad battery, bad starter solenoid. I sounds like the battery may have died. Even though the power comes on temporarily the battery does not have enough voltage to turn the starter. If you jump it and the car starts then the battery is where to start. Unfortunately, the starter solenoid may be the cause if the battery checks out.

[Madcat455]

What about the "fusable Links" on the starter... Could this be a sign of the links going bad.... since they are designed to phyically break when they go bad???

They supply the interior with all the power, and if they are intermittantly causing an "open" then the click you're hearing could be the electricity trying to jump the gap. Difficult to tell without actually hearing the noise though.

I'd take a test light and go over all the fuses. If the Ignition switch doesn't have any power, it'll act just like a dead battery.

Only if you're positive that the battery and connections are good though. The battery is the most likley place to start.

Good Luck

[meneermalik]

I tested the battery and cleaned the connections and everything comes out fine. I had a buddy turn the ignition to see if there was any movement from the starter and there is, it could be electrical vibrations or something else. Is there something I could do with the starter to test it if I remove it? This little gremlin is annoying.

[GTP Dad]

Jump across the electrical terminals on the back of the starter, using a screwdriver, if the starter is good the starter should turn over and engage the flywheel. If the starter is bad then nothing will happen.

[meneermalik]

So I havent been able to check the starter because of the location. But I went out again today to take another look. I noticed that while my girlfriend was turning the ignition on so I could pinpoint the clicking noises(similar to a ballpoint pen) I smelled something like sulphur. I noticed that the battery was smoking. I doubt the starter would be able to cause this but I dont know.

At any rate, I pinpointed the clicking noises to three small boxesabout 1inch by 1 inch by 3 inches. One box on the passenger side, one in the middle and one close to the front on the drivers side. I guess they are some sort of relays, I took one of them out which was marked '12V - Bosch' at the top. This one came from the passenger side. I tried to start the car to see what would happen and when I inserted the key the power was fine, no clicking noises and the power was not fading in or out. I tried all the electrical things at the same time, lights, radio, wipers. When I put the wipers on they were a little slow due to lack of power. I turned the ignition and the car sounded like it does when you try to start it and the battery is almost dead. Like if it had more power things would turn and start.

Could this little box be the cause? When I connected it again , the clicking noises came back and the power would flicker on and off. I tested the battery yesterday at a garage and the voltage was at 12.78.

Any thoughts on this??

[Madcat455]

You're right about the box being a relay... but I don't think that a Bosch would be a factory GM piece, but could be aftermarket replacement. I'd trace the wires after that relay, to see where they go... and to see if one has melted and grounding on the chassis.

[Doubleshot]

"I smelled something like sulphur. I noticed that the battery was smoking. I doubt the starter would be able to cause this but I dont know"
If the bushings are outon the starter, this will definetly make the wires smoke at the battery. Dead short. Stator rubbing the fields grounding out. Sounds like the starter. It would also pull all the current making everything else act wierd.