Gurgle

[zephram22]

Hey. At first I thought my water pump was going bad. The bearings are very loud. Now I am almost sure of it as there is a gurgleing noise coming from the hear. The gugrleing gets lound and more fast if if Increase engine speed. Our coures, it could also mean air in the system.

[protek22]

Sorry to see you're having all these problems so suddenly. At any rate, this gurgling is most likely from the heatercore, not good. If your waterpump is making noise, it should be checked out and replaced, as it may fail at any moment. Gurgling indicates either air, or combustion gases, in your cooling system. It may just be air. Air can be purged by letting the car idle with the resevoir cap off. As the car heats up, the air bubble should eventually be forced out. It may take a while to happen, but you'll lose some coolant when the air bubbles up, so be prepared for overflow and refilling at the resevoir. It's a good idea to run the heater full blast while doing this. To cover all bases, I would also get a combustion gas test on the cooling system, to rule out any headgasket issues. Gurgling modulated by acceleration, is also a symptom of a headgasket breach.

[zephram22]

Originally Posted by protek22

Sorry to see you're having all these problems so suddenly. At any rate, this gurgling is most likely from the heatercore, not good. If your waterpump is making noise, it should be checked out and replaced, as it may fail at any moment. Gurgling indicates either air, or combustion gases, in your cooling system. It may just be air. Air can be purged by letting the car idle with the resevoir cap off. As the car heats up, the air bubble should eventually be forced out. It may take a while to happen, but you'll lose some coolant when the air bubbles up, so be prepared for overflow and refilling at the resevoir. It's a good idea to run the heater full blast while doing this. To cover all bases, I would also get a combustion gas test on the cooling system, to rule out any headgasket issues. Gurgling modulated by acceleration, is also a symptom of a headgasket breach.

Yeah, I was pretty sure that air was in the system. The only this is, I'm not sure how it got there. I know we have a pressurized system. But, on all my other cars, the radiator had a cap, and the surge tank had a cap. I recently opened the surge tank cap and a burst of air and fluid came out. So know at least at that point I had depressurized the system. But, I wasn't sure how to bleed the system. But, I'm going to try what you suggest. I'll post back here after I try it.

[zephram22]

Originally Posted by protek22

Sorry to see you're having all these problems so suddenly. At any rate, this gurgling is most likely from the heatercore, not good. If your waterpump is making noise, it should be checked out and replaced, as it may fail at any moment. Gurgling indicates either air, or combustion gases, in your cooling system. It may just be air. Air can be purged by letting the car idle with the resevoir cap off. As the car heats up, the air bubble should eventually be forced out. It may take a while to happen, but you'll lose some coolant when the air bubbles up, so be prepared for overflow and refilling at the resevoir. It's a good idea to run the heater full blast while doing this. To cover all bases, I would also get a combustion gas test on the cooling system, to rule out any headgasket issues. Gurgling modulated by acceleration, is also a symptom of a headgasket breach.

It's just air in the lines. I managed to get most of it out today useing the method you suggested. I have to do it again tommorrow though, because I haven't gotten it all out yet.

[zephram22]

Originally Posted by protek22

Sorry to see you're having all these problems so suddenly. At any rate, this gurgling is most likely from the heatercore, not good. If your waterpump is making noise, it should be checked out and replaced, as it may fail at any moment. Gurgling indicates either air, or combustion gases, in your cooling system. It may just be air. Air can be purged by letting the car idle with the resevoir cap off. As the car heats up, the air bubble should eventually be forced out. It may take a while to happen, but you'll lose some coolant when the air bubbles up, so be prepared for overflow and refilling at the resevoir. It's a good idea to run the heater full blast while doing this. To cover all bases, I would also get a combustion gas test on the cooling system, to rule out any headgasket issues. Gurgling modulated by acceleration, is also a symptom of a headgasket breach.

Hmm, I forgot that we already talked about this (thermostats, etc..)

I did bleed the system, noticed that I've still got some air in the system, presumably due to the fact that I put the radiator cap on wrong last night and completly depressurized the system today when I removed it. In anycase...I was doing the bleeding proccess today (surge tank cap off, let the car warm) The car's temp guage is definatly going up to operating temperature much slower. So...

Felt the upper radiator hose. It was cool, except for the part of the hose that passes above the exaust. Also, didn't feel any pressure within the hoses. (No resistance when lighty squeezing the upper hose). I know the coolant was plenty hot (steam coming from surge tank with the cap off. And there was hot coolant coming from the engine into the tank. I don't know...I guess I'll try the thermostat and see if changing that fixes it.

I know the the 3.5 has a pressurized coolant system (no duh). I'm wondering if running the car with the cap off the tank would cause any of these systems to appear as I have described.

[protek22]

When you run the Aurora without the resevoir cap, you're running it at much lower pressure than normal, taking longer to warm up. So you may see the symptoms that you described. I don't know about the steam coming out of the resevoir though. It looks like you may be low on coolant there. One of the things you should look for is bubbles coming up in the resevoir at idle, especially when you step on the gas a bit. If you constantly find air in your system, it may be due to overpressure from an internal combustion leak. An internal leak usually indicates a headgasket breach, and will introduce additional pressure in the form of pressurized combustion gases.The system maxes out at 15 psi, anything above that will blow coolant out the overflow. Bubbles and lost coolant, may be a sign of overpressure from such a leak. Needless to say this is a potentially serious issue.

Before I'd do a thermostat, I would do a combustion gas test or 'Block Check'. No need wasting time and money if not needed. There are DIY kits available from NAPA auto stores for about $50.00. A good Caddy dealer should be able to do one for you as well. I don't know what they would charge. It may be worth looking into.

With the car giving you so many problems at once, it might be a good idea to seek proffessional help in getting a better idea of just what all is wrong with it. If you can find one, a good Caddy northstar technician who works exclusively on engines and transmissions, is your best bet. They should be well versed in northstar engine/transmission, removal, repair, and replacement. The typical "part changer" type mechanic would be of no use in this type of diagnosis.

[zephram22]

Originally Posted by protek22

With the car giving you so many problems at once, it might be a good idea to seek proffessional help in getting a better idea of just what all is wrong with it. If you can find one, a good Caddy northstar technician who works exclusively on engines and transmissions, is your best bet. They should be well versed in northstar engine/transmission, removal, repair, and replacement. The typical "part changer" type mechanic would be of no use in this type of diagnosis.

Lol. The car is going in on friday to be checked out. I'm going to take it to a GM dealer. It's not the GM dealer I bought the car from (Fox Automall, Auburn, NY), but rather a GM dealer several miles away whom I trust much more. (Gillespie Chevrolet, Union Springs, NY) I've never had good luck with Fox, and I know if I took the car back to them before I had a second opinion, they would probably try and talk me into getting a new engine. But, by taking it to a dealer who I trust, and would really have nothing to gain from lying to me (except a few hundred dollars), I think the problem will be quickly located.

Of course, I'm sure you understand, protek, I was hoping that coming to the forum would help me isolate the problem before the car went in. I'm still hopeful that this is the case, and I'm going to continue fighting with this car until it does goes.

At least as far as most of the leaks are concerned, I know where they are. Most leaks are coming from gaskets (valve covers, oil pans, tranmission pans) that should have been checked during the period that the dealer was "certifying the car". I'll continue updating if I learn anything new. Thanks again, protek, you've saved me quite a bit of time.

[zephram22]

BTW, I'm hoping I don't have an internal cooling leak. As of this afternoon, the coolant was clean (no sign of oil contamination) and the motor oil is clean (no sign of coolant or water in motor oil). If it's a head gasket I'm going to be P/Od. Five months ago, I blew a headgasket, and seized the engine on my Lumina LTZ with no warning. The thing cost me over 4000 dollars to fix, cause needed a new engine and various other things....*crosses fingers*