Can Anyone Figure this out???please...

[jeff32111]

Ok i am gonna try to make this not quite so long.First of all my 1989 park avenue...3800 engine will not start.A while back i posted a thread that was involving the IAC.I had problems with the IAC pulsating with the ignition off.If i would disconnect and then reconnect the battery it would stop pulsating.I changed the IAC but it still did the pulsating.I figured it could be the ECM so for a long time i just kept doing the reset on the battery to make it stop.Well the other day i havent drove the car for a few days i went to move it.It started up okay and then just shut off instantly.I went to start it up the next day and it wouldnt do anything at all.It turns over i mean, but wont crank up.I figured i should go ahead and change the ECM cause i do get a code 41 and with the pulsating IAC this could be the cause.I changed the ECM today and switched the prom to the new ECM but still the car doesnt start.What could be causing it to not start?Maybe the ignition controll module?Maybe the coil packs? I am not a mechanic so i am not good with electronics.I am getting fuel pressure fine.Dont think its fuel related.I smell gas when trying to start it.Changed the fuel filter and put new spark plugs and wires on it a few weeks ago.Anyone that could help me would be greatly appreciated.Thanks all

[HotZ28]

Code 42 = Electronic Spark Timing (EST) Circuit
Replace the crank sensor.

[jeff32111]

Thanks for the reply Z.....are you thinking thats the problem a code 42?....cause it came up a code 41 a while back when i scanned the codes ....not sure but is there a way to check to see if i am getting spark or not?

[HotZ28]

You can use a timing light on your ignition wires while trying to start the engine. With this method, you may need an assistant to hold the trigger on the timing light while you turn over the engine. Another method would be the old screwdriver in the plug wire trick. Remove one of the plug wires and put a screwdriver in the plug terminal and place the screwdriver near a ground on the engine, you should see spark to ground while turing the engine over. You can also just use a sparkplug. Insert the spare sparkplug in the wire terminal just like it is connected now, and ground the outside of the plug to the engine. If you have spark, the plug should fire just like it does in the combustion chamber. If you don't have a spare plug, take one out of the head to use for the test.


Listed below are the generic OBD1 codes; code 41 is not listed in the 89 Buick trouble codes, however it could be used. If it was actually a code 41 and has no spark it would more than likely be the crank sensor. The engine would start with a bad cam sensor, it would just fire the injectors out of time.

Code 41
4 flashes, pause, 1 flash Cam Sensor or crank sensor
Check for faulty connections, or a faulty cam sensor. Maybe also indicate a problem with the vehicle's timing chain.

Code 42
4 flashes, pause, 2 flashes Electronic Spark Timing
check for faulty connections, or a faulty ignition module

[HotZ28]

The codes listed for an 89 Buick does not include a code 41, so I assumed that it was misread.

Diagnostic Trouble Codes - 1989 Buick

13 Open Oxygen Sensor Circuit
14 Coolant Temperature Sensor (High Temp Indicated)
15 Coolant Temperature Sensor (Low Temp Indicated)
16 System Voltage High
21 Throttle Position Sensor (Signal Voltage High)
22 Throttle Position Sensor (Signal Voltage Low)
24 Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Circuit
25 Manifold Air Temperature (MAT) High Temp Indicated
26 Quad-Driver (QDM) Circuit
27
28 Gear Switch Diagnosis
28
29 Gear Switch Diagnosis
31 Park/Neutral Switch Circuit
34 Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF) (GM/SEC Low)
38 Brake Input Circuit
39 Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Circuit
42 Electronic Spark Timing (EST) Circuit
43 Electronic Spark Control (ESC) Circuit
44 Oxygen Sensor Circuit (Lean Exhaust Indicated)
45 Oxygen Sensor Circuit (Rich Exhaust Indicated)
48 Misfire Diagnosis
51 Mem-Cal Error
63
64
65 Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Flow Check

[jeff32111]

thanks Z that helped a lot.Yeah i guess the code was misread.......i am gonna try the spark plug trick today and see if its sparking.If not i am gonna change the crank sensor like u said.....thanks a lot!

[HotZ28]

It could also be the ignition control module, that is another part of the puzzle. The codes just tell you what circuit the problem is in.

[kok328]

Just a word of warning, the Tri-pack coils put out more energy than the old conventional style ingnition systems and can be deadly if the spark gets a hold of you.

[jeff32111]

thanks for the warning about the coil pack being supercharged!I checked the plugs for spark and i am getting none.I did a diagnostic by using the paper clip trick.I am getting no codes anymore since i changed the ECM.How am i to tell the diffrence if it is the ignition module or the crank sensor that is making my car not start??With out any codes now i am not sure what to do.I dont wanna spend money i dont have to to fix it.Well any idea's would be appreciated and thanks everyone for helping.

[HotZ28]

The ignition control module is the flat box under the coils . you take the three coils off and you will see it. It has the wiring connector connected to it. The module cost about $125.00 and the crank sensor cost about $30.00. You may want to go the cheaper route first. If you do your own labor, it would be best to try a used ignition control module first. You can find them at a bone yard for about $50.00 and it is easy to replace. The crank sensor is a bitch!!

[jeff32111]

thanks Z......is the crank sensor a bitch to change cause its so hard to get to?I looked at it and took the plug out and didnt look burnt or anything but i guess i will try that first before the ignition module.We have a few bone yards around i will check for that too.Why though since i changed the ECM am i not getting any codes if the car wont start though?Just a thought i am wondering about.

[HotZ28]

You can not and will not generate codes until the engine is running.

Balancer removal;

Fortunately I have a son who is a Caterpillar mechanic. He loaned me his ¾ in drive impact wrench that develops over 500 ft. lbs. of torque. It was easy to remove the balancer bolt with that. You might want to consider renting one at your local tool rental store, otherwise you will have to do it manually. If you choose the manual method, you need a deep-well six point impact socket, pull bar and a cheater bar. You will also need to have someone hold the flywheel with a large screwdriver wedged in the teeth to hold the crank from turning while you loosen the bolt. I have seen people remove the hood and stand on top of the engine with a six food cheater bar to break the bolt loose. Once the bolt is removed, the balancer will slide off of the crank, (with a little pry bar). It is not pressed on like some of them

[jeff32111]

Well i finally fixed the car.......It was the ignition control module.And now that i have a new ECM the IAC doesnt pulsate with the ignition turned off.Car starts up like a dream now.No rough idle or anything.Thanks Hotz28 for your help.....you help a lot of us and we appreciate all your help!

[HotZ28]

I love it when a plan comes together!