possible lifter problem?

[memememe99]

ok me and my wife have a 96 grand prix.3.1 liter.it has rough idle,and when we drive it acts as if it wants to stall.when we drive it takes 30 secs to get to 40.and real rough studdering to get there.

we ran odb on it it say miss fire 1-5.tested coils changed plugs wires,put new coils on anyways.it keeps getiing worse.car dealer has replaced tps for 134 $$ and wants to try alot more but i dont wanna guess while it costs me tons of money.they say it is possibly the lifters.before i let them do anymore i figured ide ask for help.thank you.

oh yes dealership replaced cat converter 4 months prior for same problem. never got better but i gave up untill now when becoming almost undrivable.also though i should add that after 40 it goes alot better but still hard to speed up but if you let off you cant speed back up for awhile.also if taking off u punch the gas the rpms dont rise.went from .8 to 1.2 n shakes real rough. lol.plz help.

[GTP Dad]

First of all I really don't think the lifters have anything to do with your current problem. I would check the fuel pressure to see if the fuel pump is producing enough pressure to keep the engine running properly. You should have at least 45 psi at idle. If you don't then the problem is either with the fuel pressure regulator or the fuel pump.

If the fuel pressure checks out then the other item I would look at is the fuel injectors. If they are going bad they will work for a time and then the engine won't want to run. You can have the dealer or mechanic test the resistance of the injectors. If the resistance goes up then they are bad and need replaced. A total replacement for injectors is expensive but it may cure the entire problem. Sorry for the bad news but it is a whole lot cheaper than having the lifters replaced.

[memememe99]

thank you for answering.i though it may have somthing todo with the fuel but they all told me no.ill go get i checked today thank you agin.i thought i should update this real quick.if i unplug the knock sensor the car gets a little bit of its take off power back but still same just lil better.does this change anything?

[GTP Dad]

Not really, the knock sensor detects detonation or spark knock when the engine is running. It is possible that the engine is carboned up from low octane fuel and you are getting a lot of knock. One thing you may want to try is a tank full of premium gasoline along with a bottle of high quality injector cleaner. I realize this will be expensive given the cost of gasoline but it is also a lot cheaper than the cost of new fuel injectors. If this fails to increase performance then the injectors may need to be replaced.

[memememe99]

ok thank you very much.ill go see what happens

[regalfriend]

If its possible the engine was producing a carbon build up, could the cat get clogged by this? Or would OBD give a code for a clogged Cat<---Question for GTPDAD---- Questions for memememe99----> How many miles on car? Any recent repairs? When was last tuneup?......Im not sure of the 3.1, hydrolic or spring loaded lifters? You would probobly hear a ticking or even a kind of knocking sound if they went bad...im not sure?

[GTP Dad]

To answer your question regalfriend, that was my first thought that the cat was clogged but based on the fact that it was replaced only 4 months ago I doubt it very seriously. He has also replaced plugs, wires and all associated ignition hardware that could have been damaged if the cat were plugged so I think his problem is in the fuel system.

[bombergp]

How much to replace the injectors and what's the odometer milage now?

[memememe99]

ok i had a diag done on the car erg valve knock sens and studder in num 4 cylinder all that came up.does this help?plus board under coils has now been replaced..also i dont know if its normal or not but hole under egr was filled with what looks to be carbon or burnt oil not real sure.if you turn a/c on it will die if your not moving without it on it takes about 2 mins to get to 40.with it on you cant get there and if you try the rpms bounce and trans kicks real hard.plus if you touch wire boots by coils u get shocked.at idle the car lunges back and forth.(shaking)does any of this help?thank you agin

[GTP Dad]

That helps a lot. Remove the EGR and clean the passageways under it. I suggest you remove the plenum (the air intake on top of the engine) and clean everything with throttle body cleaner. If these passageways are clogged it will not allow the egr to work correctly and the car will display most of the characteristic problems you indicate. You can use a wire gun brush to clean the passages or a lot of throttle body cleaner to get them cleaned out. The reason I said to remove the plenum is because this stuff will run into the engine if you don't. You may also want to clean the throttle body and idle air control motor while you are at it. You don't have to drain coolant to do this either just mark any lines you remove so you can get them back in the proper place.

The shocking you are getting indicates that the ignition module or coil may be grounding improperly. Remove it and clean the area directly below the module with a wire brush. Also make sure you have dielectric grease on the terminals where the coils go and on the plug wire boots. Check the wiring to the module to make certain that one of the wires is not bare.

The knock sensor may be bad or the connection is dirty since you got a code for it. Clean the connection to see what happens. If that does not work then you will need to replace the sensor. I hope this helps.

[richtazz]

I would try switching two of the coils and see if the misfire moves with the coil. If it does, the coil is bad, if not, you may have gotten a bad new ignition module. I would also check the crank position sensor, if it is bad it will cause excessive timing retard, which will cause the lack of power and knock sensor codes.

[memememe99]

ok i took off coils and board brushed covered in the plug grease.it doesnt shock me anymore.but the problem was still there.so i went to step 2 and took off intake and egr cleaned and put back on.prob is still there.u think its possible whatever was in there alreadt went to engine?i dont know where that hole from egr goes so i dont know.and when i first started spraying down that hole the cleaner just filled up like a quarter inch of it basically what u could see.then just sat there should it have run through it? thank you.also i did try switching coil n took it back for another diag still in same cyl.plus with the egr its been bad for 2 years now would that cause this 2 happen?

[richtazz]

now that you have the shocking problem solved, check the plug in cyl 4. It may have fouled out due to not enough spark. If the plug looks good, I'd put my money on a bad injector or injector harness on cyl 4.

[bombergp]

Hey MEME,,99; share with us the odometer milage so we can learn when this can happen to us!

[memememe99]

im at 170,000iles.i couldnt help thinkin with all that crud in the egr that had to be it so i took it off agin flushed with pb blaster spray put some sea foam in the gas and did a motor flush.i put it all back together let it run till the smoke went away from the blaster spray.after about 50 miles sum power and accel came back and ability to use a/c.still not good tho takes a min to get to shift up due to slow accel but once past 45 u can go faster but chuggs especialy uphills.so what do you guys think?try flushin over agin or somthing else/?