"Ricers" are a good thing for Silverado owners.

[White Lightening]

Greetings Fellow Silverado Owners,

I've been more than a little surprised at some of the posts and threads on this forum talking about "Ricers". It seems that some truck owners see "Ricers" as the enemy. "Ricers" seem to be generally defined as Asian made vehicles - either truck or car. It reminds me of 30 years ago when some motorcyclers considered Asian bikes as sewing machines (because they were so smooth and higher reving).

I love my 2004 Silverado. But I also loved my first ever truck - a new 1977 Ford Courier I bought in 77 (made by Mazda). My 79 Toyota Supra that I still have - represented the first foreign fuel injected car soon followed by the Datsun Z in 1980. Their suspension systems and braking systems were also unique at the time as were their engine performances. Those designs fostered domestic manufacturer's to start making fuel injection that we see today. My 79 Supra has disc brakes too and could wup the pants off of Firebirds and Camaros stock.

My point isn't how fast one vehicle is over another. My point is - that "Ricers" have given our domestic vehicles a tremendous number of improvements in comfort, reliability, and performance. There is one auto manufacturer out there (foreign or domestic) that considers itself an "engine company". Their theory and mantra is - we build engines and then design products to put those engines in. Tools, cars, lawnmowers, you name it - Honda makes engines - then designs products to put them in. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Mazda, and Mitsubishi have forced domestic manufacturer's to do better. Those "ricers" have consistently built better output engines the last 10 years with higher performance and better miles-per-gallon - than our domestics have been able to. Domestic manufacturers are still trying to produce a comparable product to the Subaru 4 cylinder engine of 20 years ago - that is still being used in some of their vehicles.

I love my Chevy truck - but I understand that whether it is Chevy, or Ford, or Dodge, or Harley Davidson - all these manufacturers have had to work very hard on a constant basis to keep up with Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, and Nissan/Datsun.

We as owners of domestic vehicles - have benefited because of the "ricers" - and some of their technology and manfucaturing technics is stunning. Tennesse has a very large Nissan plant since 1986, Honda - the first to build a plant in the U.S. started it in early 1980's in the middle of Iowa. Texas and Canada also have large plants for Asian companies. Hyundai just spent 1.2 Billion to build a U.S. manfuacturing plant. And each and every one of those plants (and more I didn't list) all employ lots and lots of U.S. workers with good pay and benefits.

If some of you reading this don't like "ricers" - maybe its time you started to rethink your position. Our trucks today often include the advanced manufacturing technics and innovations the Asians introduced in the 70s and 80s. We were getting "beat" at our own game. so badly that domestic manfuacturer's had to buy engines and products from Asian companies to put in our vehicles for quite some time. Compete in a race with a foreign car if you like - but don't hate "ricers" for doing what we were supposed to be doing for years. If we are to truly desire to be the best manufacturers of vehicles in the world - we must run (not walk) - to keep up with both European and Asian designs. And China - is soon to be coming.

[jethro_3]

Hate Ricers, no. Hate the ego that some represent, yes. Shoot the messenger.... not White Lightening.j/k....

Those who generalize trucks and other groups is wrong. There will always be a faster vehicle. Unless you own that twin jet vehicle that goes faster than Mach 1..... is it a jet, a car, or what????

[norwood]

Well said White Lightening. Our "domestic" cars and trucks are light years ahead of where they WOULD be in quality and design, were it not for the competition from the asian brands.
I've worked in segments of the auto industry for over 17 years now, and believe me most every process and system is done with at least some Japanese or Asian influence. From the big 3 on down to each supplier, everyone is "doing it" the way the Japanese do it. Admitedly, with varying degrees of success. Suppliers actually have little choice in the matter. If you want to do business with the big boys, you do it their way.
As was your point, it's not whether you like "ricers" or not. But you can't deny that they've raised the bar for everyone.

[dr_of_lovephd]

I do not hate ricers, but I feel there are a few points that need to be made about this topic.

While the Japanese cars are slightly more reliable than domestic, the Korean and European cars are not. Many of the new designs and technologies for the domestic engines are actually developed in NASCAR. Also, I have been to China, and one of the most popular brands there is Buick.

Competition naturally makes products better, but there is always more than one way to interpreter the situation. For instance, the $1.2 billion plant in Alabama is not unionized. Starting pay is about $14, The minimum pay at an GM plant is more than $21 bucks, and the benefits are much less than any domestic company. This allows Hyundai to undersell Honda and Toyota and still have more profit than GM. GM really makes less profit per vehicle than any other manufacture in the US. Many analysts I have read think this lack of profit is the most significant factor keeping GM from making better vehicles.

The 5.3L Chevy engine is completely GM designed. The Silverado with the 5.3 gets the best gas mileage of any full size truck with 295 hp. Toyota gets as good of gas mileage with less power, and Nissan gets 15 extra hp with much less gas mileage. The next version of the 5.3 is supposed to have 340hp and even better gas mileage.

White Lightening, if you really want to know why we have to try to catch up, it boils down to education. When a Chinese, Japanese, or Korean student graduates from high school they are already better educated in math and science than many US students graduating from college. After 5 years of chemistry, physics, and learning trigonometry and calculus without even a calculator, they can make us look pretty bad. Then they can come to the US and ace, I mean a perfect 1600, the SAT or GRE and beat our students out of a position in college. Some are even getting paid by our government to come here and study, and when there done they can go back home and design a better engine, TV, or motorcycle. It’s great they can get an education in the US, but if we don’t do something to catch up with their education system, we will not be able to compete with anything they produce.

[White Lightening]

Originally Posted by dr_of_lovephd

For instance, the $1.2 billion plant in Alabama is not unionized. Starting pay is about $14, The minimum pay at an GM plant is more than $21 bucks, and the benefits are much less than any domestic company. This allows Hyundai to undersell Honda and Toyota and still have more profit than GM. GM really makes less profit per vehicle than any other manufacture in the US. Many analysts I have read think this lack of profit is the most significant factor keeping GM from making better vehicles.

Greetings Dr of LovePHD. I think you're missing a couple of really key points. Starting pay in Alabama of $14 is considered quite good pay for ANY manufacturer - and Alabama is thrilled they got the plant - they would like more of the very same thing if they could get them. And a couple dozen other states would love to have gotten this plant too. And when Hyundai provides pensions or 401K programs the U.S. Government won't end up paying them - like it looks GM and Ford may end up doing. GM is laying off people like mad (over 25,000 between 2003 and end of 2004) - they will be laying off another 25000 in the next 18 months. We should be thrilled that manufacturing jobs are created in the U.S. in a typically poorer employed areas of the country at very positive and livable pay scales. "Our problem" has been we think we're always "worth more" than we really are - and as a result we price ourselves out of the market.

Or lets look at GM's management and operations decisions. Did you know that the person who designed the new Nissan Titan and the new Nissan Quest worked for GM. But GM said no woman would design their trucks - so she - a GM designer - quit and moved to Nissan and created award winning products for them instead.

My point continues to be - its not the Asian's fault that we've been too greedy and too slow to change and build innovation in the 1970's and 1980's and early 1990's. We believed we were superior and invincible like "the hare" in the tortoise and the hare story. We had the money - we had the plants - we had the workers - we had the lead - we had the market. We used to laugh at transistor radios made in Japan. We're not laughing anymore - except at ourselves.

You talked about our education needs to catch up. I agree - but not by spending money. I've seen Asian immigrants - work twice as hard in school and have much greater support and encouragement from their parents - than their fellow students from the U.S. who don't have the English language and cultural barriers to deal with. They do twice as much with half as much. We shouldn't be against "ricers" - we need to get our track shoes on to keep up to many (not all) of their perspectives. In less than three years - another major speciality product manufacturing part of the U.S. will be forced to compete like never before.

I love my 2004 Chevy Truck - but I very much respect our errors of the 70's, 80's, and 90's - and hope the current generation doesn't develop the same perspective many had in those decades. Asian cars and trucks are driven by lots of Americans because they have good performance, great reliability, and often feature technical advancements and better resale values.

Here's a simple example. For me - it was a big decision choosing between a 2004 Chevy Silverado and a first year product the 2004 Nissan Titan. Would you rather own a new Honda Odyssey, new Nissan Quest, or new Chevy Venture van? We can enjoy and be proud of our Silverados - but we can't afford to be cocky against "the ricers" in my opinion. Other posters views and discussion are welcome - and I'll try to keep my posts fewer and shorter

[korndogg]

The definition of a "ricer" has changed over the years. The old meaning was basically any car from asia. The definition now is pretty much...well i dont know how to explain it....heres an example. http://www.fightrice.com/showthread.php?t=4947

[BlenderWizard]

Yeah "ricers" now really refers to the group of misguided Japanese car perormance enthusiasts who put, say, 2' spoilers on the backs of their cars, fart can mufflers and so on and so forth. Basically, they waste money on their cars trying to give the illusion of something fast when it really does nothing but look stupid and make noise. Another example is about 10 years ago around here, the ricer group began using off center and/or diagonal stripes on their cars. Looked pretty damn stupid.

[skipr]

I don't want to start a big arguement here, but I thought that fuel injection was available in the 1960's by domestic makers. You ever heard the song "Shut down" by the Beach Boys? I quote "My fuel injected stingray and a 413" And as for the transistor..it was developed by Bell Labortories (3 scientist Shockley, Brattain, and Bardeen) American's. Sony just took a already invented product and did something with it. Bell Labs and other laborytories focused on military appilcations. So would you say we are lagging behind in our military technolgy? Not by a long shot! We are 50 years ahead of everyone. Japan couldn't defend themselves from the Boy Scouts let alone an enemy nation. Seeing how much of the world hates us, i'm glad they focused on military defence instead of making your truck run better. We even sell F-15's to Japan, the catch is we don't include our far superior weapon and targeting electronics (TWS,RWR,FLIR, GMT...etc.) So I fail to see how they are superior, and we learn from them.

[Rally Sport]

Also White Lightning, I dont really see how Japan is making us become better because of what they're doing. I've ridden in both foreign and domestic cars and I will say that domestics are better in comfort and HP.

Now I fail to see how your 79 Supra goes and whoops up on stock Camaros and Firebirds, if you're talking about the 6 model back then, i'll give you a maybe but not the real street racers, the likes of the Z28 and Trans Am since they had almost 200 HP while the Supra had 110-116 stock, and even then the 6 Camaro and Firebird had the same amount of HP like the Supra did.

Now you're saying that Japan also has made us step up in reliablity in our cars, I still will probably say maybe because RX-7s and RX-8s are NOT the most reliable cars out there as the rotary engine breaks down alot from what I hear. now about domestics, I will also say that Chevy has always lasted longer than Ford, now it hasnt changed because in my entire life that i've seen for some reason Chevy outlives Ford engines, im not trying to start a flame war here but that's what i've seen. Its just the way that they were built. Usually foreign engines will outlast domestics because they produce little torque which is what it comes down to, but they wont tow whatever you need towed, i'll tell you that now.

I think you're bashing too much on domestics here, since Chevy lately has brought out the Ls2 engine in the Corvette with 400 to 500 HP depending on what model you get it on with the gas mileage not regularly seen with a V8 that has 5.7 or 6.0 liters, AND since I dont see many foreign countries use V8s in their cars, where did Chevy get the idea to do this? It was their own, they dont try to copy Japan in their cars but are leading their own way. Now why does Japan come out with crazy fast cars that use the I4 engine and have the same power as a Corvette? Simple they just slap a turbo to it and there you go, but the domestic car manufactures try not to do that instead add liters while trying to increase mpg as well.

Also you have your definition of Ricer wrong, rice is considered to be a car that has useless stuff on it to make it look good and isnt used for anything, it can be on domestic or import cars. like so.

Dodge Stratus:


Honda Civic:

[Slowprocess]

HUGE difference between imports and "ricers"........HUGE. I've had no benefits from the installation of a bolt on coffee cans and b52 wings on the back of a 100 horsepower hatchbox. The fast and the furious dumbed me down for a good hour and a half.

[Rollingbones]

Hmmmm... some really interesting points here. There once was a gent named W. Edwards Deming. After WWII we, the United States, had effectively destoyed all potentail manufacturing competition while upgrading our own factories. W.E. Deming creadted the comcept of Total Quality through statistical analysis. (quality being defined as "meeting/exceeding customer expectations or requirements). In the early 60's America wouldn't listen and Japan did. By the 70's everyone elses factories and man. processes were refined while America lagged. By the 80's, the US auto manufacturers listened and the current "automotive race" was on. Innovations, advances and growth all are dependent on what this man created (he was an Army weapons quality officer during WWII and lived to the age of about 81, working almost to the end). Everyone copies to a point. everyone creates new stuff to a point, but I believe GM to do more of the latter. Some ideas work while others don't, but all is guided by what we, the customer, wants or needs.
As for the "ricer" issue, I can only imagine what they call us Silverado owners and yes, I beieve they owe some advances in durability, power, ETC to us, Superado (and other truck) owners.
I don't hate ricers (or as we call them at the Medical Center, Road Rockets), just the snooty little so-n-so's that drive them and the traffic hazzards they create. The only thing I have to say to any of them is..."I hope you signed your donar card, we need the parts!!"

[NoRiceHere01]

this sounds more like a discussion you would find on the street racing forum haha. the only thing ur gonna do by bringing up the issue of imports vs. domestics is stir up the same old argument. it will never be settled. i will say this tho:before u bash the americans' build quality, y dont u guys look and see where the factories r located that most of ur hondas and hyundais r comin from. bet its over on this side of the pacific

[Rollingbones]

You got that right. A lot of those high quality Asian imports are being assembled in American factories. Even the Japanese once commented that American workers are the best in the world. Kinda sounds like us now don't it!!!

[BlenderWizard]

Originally Posted by skipr

I don't want to start a big arguement here, but I thought that fuel injection was available in the 1960's by domestic makers. You ever heard the song "Shut down" by the Beach Boys? I quote "My fuel injected stingray and a 413" And as for the transistor..it was developed by Bell Labortories (3 scientist Shockley, Brattain, and Bardeen) American's. Sony just took a already invented product and did something with it. Bell Labs and other laborytories focused on military appilcations. So would you say we are lagging behind in our military technolgy? Not by a long shot! We are 50 years ahead of everyone. Japan couldn't defend themselves from the Boy Scouts let alone an enemy nation. Seeing how much of the world hates us, i'm glad they focused on military defence instead of making your truck run better. We even sell F-15's to Japan, the catch is we don't include our far superior weapon and targeting electronics (TWS,RWR,FLIR, GMT...etc.) So I fail to see how they are superior, and we learn from them.

They offered fuel injection on the COrvette in the 50's