What is the POINT for abortion?

[NeonAtron]

Alright i know this is typical subject for discussion but i just have a question that i think/hope some of you can clear up. My question isnt about the constitutionality of abortion, and not so much the morality of it. My question is on the PURPOSE of it. Why would a woman desire to destroy a life within her? Is there no OTHER option? In my opinion the real question is "is it a question of KEEPING the baby or HAVING the baby?" I think if it is a medical health risk to the pregnant woman if she has the baby then abortion should be CONSIDERED. However, if there is no danger to her health most likely its a question of keeping the child. So if there is no desire to keep the child why not give it up for ADOPTION? There will be NO legal obligation to a the mother if she simply gives up all parental rights. My theory is that they are cowards. I dont think they have the courage to live with the fact that they have brought a child into the world and the child might hate and resent them for putting them in a foster home instead of taking care of them. Some feel that if u live in a foster home your life is automatically SHITTI; so rather than have that on their conscience they would rather kill the child (or THING, depending on what your viewpoint is) rather than let it live. But if that is the case then that is the most foolish selfish reason i have heard to justify a decision to someone's LIFE. (i wonder what PRO-ABORTION supporters would say if THEIR mothers wrestled over the decision to have them....) So now like i said assuming the mother does not have any medical condition that would put her health or life in danger by having a baby, what is the REASON NOT to have a child?

[Muscletang]

It's simple, they don't know anything about responsibility.

If you rob a bank, you're going to jail because you're responsible for it.
If you hit somebody's car, you're going to repair it because you're responsible for it.
If you get pregnant, you're going to have that kid because you're responsible for it.

[lazysmurff]

youve opened a can of worms. this is a very hairy subject that will undoubtedly end in a closed thread. it always happens that way. but before that happens, let me give my two cents on the subject, and ill see if maybe that clears things up for you.

many times, simply carrying the baby all the way through a pregnency can be disruptive to a persons life. depending on the age, highschool and college can be hell while pregnent, holding down a job is more than difficult, and many cant afford the time off due to sickness, dr visits, and delivery.

the hormonal changes a woman undergoes during pregnency can cause all sorts of problems, especially affecting the emotional and pyschological side of life (post pardom depression happens, even in mothers who choose adoption)

even if the baby is given up, those 9 months alone can be stressful, money consuming, and debilitating.

that, and there are still chances of even a perfectly healthy woman dying during childbirth. it happens, especially in rural/innercity areas, where health care isnt too great.

and never mind that that kid you gave away may want to look you up and come find you later in life, a situation many would wish to avoid, but that does happen, quite often.

a couple hundred bucks for an abortion is much easier to stomach (pardon the pun) than an expensive, drawn out pregnency, and the consequences there-of.

and pardon women for wanting to choose when this happens to them. its really not about keeping or killing kids, its about reproductive freedom and family planning. i dont understand why people smoke, but that doesnt mean it should be illegal.

Originally Posted by muscletang

if you get pregnent, youre going to have the kid, because youre responsable for it

or something like that....

or, if you get pregnent, you dont have the kid, because you dont have the ability to be responsable for it. dont make this a responsability issue, it has nothing to do with that.

[KustmAce]

Why do some women abort?

They can't afford pregnacy.
They cant handle pregnacy during school/work.
They can't live with having a child only to put it up for adoption.

The reasons are endless. Its easy to criticize someone, but until you are faced with the same situation, everyone should mind their own damn business.

[Muscletang]

You raise some points lazysmurff but I'll have to disagree with it.

As I said, it's about responsiblity but money does come into play. It is expensive to have the kid and also go to the doctor and all the stuff. People who plan to have kids usually save up some because you will have to dish out the dough.

The thing is, shouldn't you think about that the next time you go dropping your pants? I mean it's not like people are in the dark when it comes to how we all go here. We know, our parents had sex and we showed up.

Well, a lot of people don't think about this, and they end up getting themselves into this situation of an un-wanted kid. They then don't want the responsiblity that they created and abortion is the simple, easy, coward way out.

[Flatrater]

So what is cheaper an abortion or a box of condoms? Alot of places even give out free birth control to people.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

You raise some points lazysmurff but I'll have to disagree with it.

As I said, it's about responsiblity but money does come into play. It is expensive to have the kid and also go to the doctor and all the stuff. People who plan to have kids usually save up some because you will have to dish out the dough.

The thing is, shouldn't you think about that the next time you go dropping your pants? I mean it's not like people are in the dark when it comes to how we all go here. We know, our parents had sex and we showed up.

Well, a lot of people don't think about this, and they end up getting themselves into this situation of an un-wanted kid. They then don't want the responsiblity that they created and abortion is the simple, easy, coward way out.

Man oh man is that a fatal flaw in logic and reasoning. You're not responsible for the care of the child until you have assumed that responsibility. If you were having sex with the intention of becoming pregnant, then yes, you do have the responsibility. But if you were using protection and a pregnancy still occurred, you never assumed responsibility to care for the child. The responsibility NEVER exists until it is taken on by consenting adults. Period.

[1SlowAccord]

Ya, and if the woman is raped I guess she should have thought twice about opening her legs. But she must still be responsible for walking down that sidewalk at night, or maybe in the park during the day....

[ec437]

Originally Posted by 1SlowAccord

Ya, and if the woman is raped I guess she should have thought twice about opening her legs. But she must still be responsible for walking down that sidewalk at night, or maybe in the park during the day....

Ever heard of the morning after pill?

Perhaps something even worse than abortion is a 16, 17, 18 year old getting pregnant and saying "I wanna keep the baby! I'm a good mom!" Yeah, you're a good mom? Right. So is that why you got pregnant while you're still living in your parents house going to community college and can't afford a kid? Great.

[tenguzero]

What it comes down to, is the fact that a woman's body, and WHATEVER is a part of it, is her right to do with as she sees fit. Until the baby is able to survive on its own, WITHOUT reliance on the mother's body, it's no more than an extension of her own anatomy. Of course, we draw a line at the point to which abortion is legal, because (while pro-lifers and religious types would seemingly push it back until before the damn sperm even entered her body) this pre-sentience deadline is nonetheless acceptable to the majority of people, as neither science nor religion can prove otherwise.

That being said, obviously I'm not for careless abortion do to any circumstance, however; it's the mother's right (no matter how ignorant she is) to do what she feels is the best for her body. Just like Lazysmurff said -- I don't understand why the hell people want to be idiots and smoke cigarettes either, but it's their body to do with as they please.

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

You raise some points lazysmurff

i do that every now and then

Originally Posted by Muscletang

but I'll have to disagree with it.

good, if everyone agreed with me, it'd be a boring world

Originally Posted by Muscletang

The thing is, shouldn't you think about that the next time you go dropping your pants? I mean it's not like people are in the dark when it comes to how we all go here. We know, our parents had sex and we showed up.

see, thing is, id like to be able to have sex without having to worry bout a kid. condoms break, pills dont work 100%, morning after pills are even more likely to fail, and pregnency just isnt an option at this point. why cant i have sex without having to worry about a kid?

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Well, a lot of people don't think about this, and they end up getting themselves into this situation of an un-wanted kid.

or the condom breaks, or springs an unnoticed leak, or its that 25% chance that the pill didnt work...see above...

Originally Posted by Muscletang

They then don't want the responsiblity that they created and abortion is the simple, easy, coward way out.

they didnt "create" any responsibility. they got stuck in a situation that they didnt like. and they found a solution. no cowards here mate. id much rather a girl have an abortion than attempt to raise a kid she niether wanted nor was ready for, or abandon that kid into the cesspool that is adoption and foster care. thats a much more responsible thing to do than wantonly try to raise a child because some religious relic made you feel guilty about it.

if you want abortions to stop, pressure drug companies for a 100% effective form of birthcontrol, because while man can walk on the moon, for some reason we havent been able to come up with a cheap, effective pill *cough* religious right *cough*

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by tenguzero

What it comes down to, is the fact that a woman's body, and WHATEVER is a part of it, is her right to do with as she sees fit. Until the baby is able to survive on its own, WITHOUT reliance on the mother's body, it's no more than an extension of her own anatomy. Of course, we draw a line at the point to which abortion is legal, because (while pro-lifers and religious types would seemingly push it back until before the damn sperm even entered her body) this pre-sentience deadline is nonetheless acceptable to the majority of people, as neither science nor religion can prove otherwise.

, up to a point.

Originally Posted by KustmAce

Its easy to criticize someone, but until you are faced with the same situation, everyone should mind their own damn business.

Originally Posted by Thrasher

.... But if you were using protection and a pregnancy still occurred, you never assumed responsibility to care for the child. The responsibility NEVER exists until it is taken on by consenting adults. Period.

BUT Can't say I agree here. If the child is born, then the adults that brought said child into the world have a responsibility of care. Now whether that care is to raise the child themselves or give it up for adoption is their decision, and theirs alone.

What you're forgetting about the responsibility perspective is that if you decide to act as an adult, you must be responsible as an adult. If you choose to have unprotected sex, the rubber breaks, or the pill doesn't work, you may incur adult decisions and responsibilities.

Regardless of whether or not responsibility is "taken on by consenting adults" or not, it exists. Your statement is akin to saying, "Well, I ran over that little old lady and killed her, but I choose not to take on the responsibility for driving safely, so that responsibility never existed. So therefore it's not my fault".

One significant moment of responsibility occurs, as Muscletang put is so well:

Originally Posted by Muscletang

shouldn't you think about that the next time you go dropping your pants?

Because no vaginal sex = no pregnancy.

lazysmurf is right on with the "give me 100% surety". Until that is possible, we all must be aware of the consequences of our actions.

[Rally Sport]

Simple answer, Abortion is done because they dont want the responsiblity of a child for 18 years or cant finacially afford it right now. AND really what's wrong with abortion, we're over populating really bad already and people complain about that when low income families have like 20 kids then complain about abortion, make up your mind!

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by Rally Sport 92

... because they dont want the responsiblity of a child for 18 years ...

18? Ha! More like permanent.

[Gotti]

Neon... I agree with your post, 110%

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

many times, simply carrying the baby all the way through a pregnency can be disruptive to a persons life. depending on the age, highschool and college can be hell while pregnent, holding down a job is more than difficult, and many cant afford the time off due to sickness, dr visits, and delivery.

So what, every time somethings bothering you in your life or is troublesome you should kill it? If work is hell because of one guy that bothers you everyday, do you have the right to take a gun and end their life because its inconvenient to you?

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

and pardon women for wanting to choose when this happens to them. its really not about keeping or killing kids, its about reproductive freedom and family planning. i dont understand why people smoke, but that doesnt mean it should be illegal.

It really is about keeping or killing. I dont understand how people dont understand this. If that abortion isnt done, then what happens? There is a new life in the world, i child that grows up just like everybody else, doesnt he deserve the same rights to live that you and I got? And if that abortion is done, then what happens? That child never even has the chance of growing up.... thats not fair to the child, fuck the mother (if she wants to take the lazy way out and kill a child rather than give it to a family that would take good care of it) Do you know how many families want to adopt? But theres a shortage of kids....

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

or, if you get pregnent, you dont have the kid, because you dont have the ability to be responsable for it. dont make this a responsability issue, it has nothing to do with that.

It is tho, first the girl is not responsible getting knocked up. 2nd instead of taking responsibility for the child and giving it to a family that cant have children and will take much better care of it than she will, she kills it. Cause she isnt responsible for her actions... cut and dry

Originally Posted by thrasher

The responsibility NEVER exists until it is taken on by consenting adults. Period.

Negative... the responsiblity is there as soon as the woman gets pregnant. I hope it never happens to me, cause that would be a shitty situation to be in. But even if its a one night stand accident, and i dont give a shit about the girl, i'm not letting her kill the kid. Its my responsibility to face the consequences of my actions. If the condom pops, its still your responsiblity. Just cause you didnt acknowledge what could happen cause you're wearing a condom, doesnt mean it wont happen. You gotta man up!

Originally Posted by tenguzero

What it comes down to, is the fact that a woman's body, and WHATEVER is a part of it, is her right to do with as she sees fit. Until the baby is able to survive on its own, WITHOUT reliance on the mother's body, it's no more than an extension of her own anatomy. Of course, we draw a line at the point to which abortion is legal, because (while pro-lifers and religious types would seemingly push it back until before the damn sperm even entered her body) this pre-sentience deadline is nonetheless acceptable to the majority of people, as neither science nor religion can prove otherwise.

That being said, obviously I'm not for careless abortion do to any circumstance, however; it's the mother's right (no matter how ignorant she is) to do what she feels is the best for her body. Just like Lazysmurff said -- I don't understand why the hell people want to be idiots and smoke cigarettes either, but it's their body to do with as they please.

Yeah but after that time, the baby already has a beating heart, arms, legs, everything. Its a human life, that they're putting to an end.

And you cant compare it to cigarettes, cigarettes harm the person smoking them. But an abortion ends the life of another human being.



shit i gotta go to work.. cant read the rest. But what i'm tryin to say is, ADOPTION is always there if you cant take care of the baby. Theres no need to kill it, and stop that life from having a future

This is my own opinion, i'm not some 30 year old altar boy either