Damn Religion

[Scorpion531]

Why won't it just die! Its time is up, it was ok back in ancient times when people did not know any better and it seemed like the best way to explain nature, but now when there have been the advances in science that have progressed far enough understand how things came to be, it needs to show some courtesy and bow out. My case in a point, all one needs to do is look at the stars to know the bible is wrong. For example SN 1987A a supernova that occured 50 kiloparsecs which is 164,000 lightyears away. A star blew up 164,000 years ago, and yet over 50% (muslims, jews and christians) of the earth's population believe in a religion that thinks the universe is around 10,000 years old.

[kublah]

There is no way to use logic to explain away things that people take on faith. Our sciences are based only on our observations, theories, and reason, all of which are completely irrelevant in a situation where an all powerful deity runs the show. People also take comfort in the familiarity of religion and not having to worry about things they don't understand.

Besides, most of the great questions that religions try to deal with have yet to be resolved by science. When and how did life and the universe begin? What happens when we die? What are we doing here anyway? Unless I slept through the lecture in high school biology that explained all this stuff, we don't really know shit...

[Scorpion531]

We may not have all the right answers yet, but we are getting closer. The religious ideas have long since been replaced as the accepted scientific view with the more fitting scientific theories. If their was no more religion and people grew up without religion they would be comfortable and familiar with their view too, even if they didn't understand it. My biggest problem with religion is that I feel it holds societies back, slowing their advancement.

[clawhammer]

Originally Posted by Scorpion531

My biggest problem with religion is that I feel it holds societies back, slowing their advancement.

That doesn't really make much sense. If people would have just accepted explanations given by religions just like people that lived before us did, we wouldn't have had to waste billions of dollars in the name of science, to come up with an ever crazier theory. I fail to see how it has held us back

[kublah]

Originally Posted by Scorpion531

We may not have all the right answers yet, but we are getting closer. The religious ideas have long since been replaced as the accepted scientific view with the more fitting scientific theories. If their was no more religion and people grew up without religion they would be comfortable and familiar with their view too, even if they didn't understand it. My biggest problem with religion is that I feel it holds societies back, slowing their advancement.

There may be a few pretty good scientific theories that get thrown around about this stuff, but science will never completely explain away religion to the point where nobody believes it in anymore. There will always be people whose faith is stronger than anything any scientist could ever tell them no matter how good their rationale.

Slowing advancement? Maybe if religious principles weren't holding back development in things like stem cell research we'd have a few more diseases cured, and there might even be a little bit less bloodshed due to conflicts of belief. All that would be great don't get me wrong. But would a society without religion really be better for most of the people who have to live in it? I think most major religions are completely bogus, so I don't really subscribe to any of them. But I also think there is a certain spiritual side to our own lives, living amongst each other and the world around us that would be a terrible thing to lose touch with. I think that if we were to ignore that, anything gained would be completely overshadowed by the loss.

[Knifeblade]

Gentlemen and ladies, may I strongly suggest that your discourse be kept calm and reasonable, as it has been so far.

I applaud you all for discourse on this topic in a rational and mature manner . I merely post this in that a very similar thread to this very topic got locked a while ago, as the posters became, let's just say "aggressive".

Thanks

Tam

[Knifeblade]

With the above said, I respect the theorist belief, but I do not hold to it. I believe in natural evolutionary development, based on science and fossil evidence.

[MagicRat]

Good thread so far. I do generally agree with the posts made so far, although the title of this thread may be a bit too inflammitory.

Religion has traditionally held back scientific advances because most religions we know today traditionally depend on an authoritarian control of the faithful. This authority supposedly flows from the belief in a diety.
As science disporves the traditional mythology of a religion, it challanges the supposed existence of a deity and therefore directly challanges the authority of the religion itself. Gallileo suffered for this purpose as did millions of others over the years.
To summarise, science traditionally has made it difficult for religions to control the masses.

While there are millions of peaceful religious people in the world, religion is a useful tool for despotic individuals or regimes to perform evil deeds, either through individual acts (ie. traditional islamic justice allowing adulterers to be stoned to death), or mass terrorist acts.

Many religions do adapt themselves to the modern world, but sadly, their written texts do not. The Bible and the Koran are ancient obsolete works. They are intended for relatively primitive societies where there was very little in the way of education and sensible rule of law. They were useful guides for the uneducated perople to live a productive life in chaotic societies.

However, these days, or course, democracies, education and the reasonable rule of law have made much of their teaching obsolete.
So these books are suject to interpretation to bring meaning to our modern world.
The problem is some of the faithful are using and interpreting these writings to justify their fundamentally immoral actions.

I am thankful that the fastest-growing belief system in the world today is athiesm. Freedom from religion is a valuable concept.

[drunken monkey]

does anyone else find the title "damn religion" rather ironic?

[Mediocrity]

Seen too many unexplainable things in this world to doubt the existance of something greater.

Besides, it never hurt anyone to have faith.

[TexasF355F1]

I'm going to quote from the movie "The Notebook", "Science can only go so far, and then there's God." i.e. Medical misdiagnosis' take place all too often for me to even start to think that science has all the answers b/c it doesn't and never will. It is a great tool to find the beginnings and such of many things, but the world, universe and human race, etc, is far to massive for science to even get to a pin-point beginning.

Science does not have the answer to everything. There are so many things that are completely unexplainable that not even science will ever figure out. Have they figure out how or why ghosts exist? Nope.

You believe what you believe and i believe what i believe. That's the bottom line. Considering that the VAST majority of the world is religious, science will never top that. Somethings are better left a mystery anyway, it adds to the awe and wonder of the lives we live.

[Heep]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

Somethings are better left a mystery anyway, it adds to the awe and wonder of the lives we live.

Philosophy is much more interesting than science for me

I believe in God. There are countless reasons why, but one of them is, as kublah mentioned, I don't have a very good understanding of science - never have. So, I must "blindly" believe in something - human scientists, God, whatever. So for me, God it is. At the absolute least, Christianity is better at explaining things in a way I can understand.

In addition, as has been mentioned before, science has limitations. So far, as far as I know, it has not been able to explain why a particular girl may look gorgeous to me, and average to others, or why I fall in love, or how a woman in my church, diagnosed with terminal cancer, went back for tests the very next week, and no trace could be found that cancer had ever existed. Judging by the masses who argue against it, it can't even fully explain itself!

Also, the consistency of Christianity says something for me. Science changes constantly - the earth was flat, now it's round, the earth has been around for 5 million years, now it's 5+ billion years, etc. Christianity, on the other hand, though mindsets and practices have evolved with the times, has stayed consistent - the earth was proclaimed a "circle" back in Isaiah's day (Isaiah 40:22) (far B.C.), and the age of the earth has stayed constant in the thousands of years (though an exact date is still conjecture, as it's not clearly expressed in the Bible). The fact that it's still providing material for scientists to argue about is certainly significant, in my view.

As per your mention that the Bible was disproven by a supernova is conjectural - you're assuming that everything was "brand new" when it was created. I don't believe Adam was created as a baby, nor trees as sprouts, nor rocks with null carbon from radiation (or however they carbon-date stuff). It's perfectly fathomable for me that the image of the ancient supernova was already only a few thousand years away from Earth upon creation. Finally, the Bible also says that God is all-powerful - if that is the case, He clearly has the ability to make any particular bit of light travel 164,000x faster than normal, if He so chooses

To sum up, I don't know that Christianity, science, or any other religion is true, and none can ever prove absolutely everything. It all comes down to a personal choice, and I'm thrilled we all have that choice to believe in whatever we desire.

BTW, drunken monkey, I too love the irony of the thread title

[ghetto7o2azn]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

Science does not have the answer to everything. There are so many things that are completely unexplainable that not even science will ever figure out. Have they figure out how or why ghosts exist? Nope.

youre right, science doesnt have the answer to everything, but neither does religion... if it had the answer to everything, then there would be no science... science is the study of something... if we knew everything about everything then we obviously wouldnt need to study about anything... on top of that, when science progresses, new mysteries are made and new ideas come about... which is why we will never know ALL the answers in the world

there have always been things that were completely unexplainable, which is why people used to create myths for answers to why the sun came up, why people fell in love, etc. but i think that NEVER having the answer is an overexageration...

i dont believe in ghosts, ive never seen one and ive never seen a video of one, yet there are so many people claiming to see them.. well, pretty much i think its bs to create hype and a good story... i need some sort of visual, or logical proof of something for me to believe it, which is why im not religious, which relys on faith...

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

You believe what you believe and i believe what i believe. That's the bottom line. Considering that the VAST majority of the world is religious, science will never top that. Somethings are better left a mystery anyway, it adds to the awe and wonder of the lives we live.

never is a ver absolute word, idk about that... also id like an example of what one of these awe inspiring mysteries youre talking about... if you are a religious person, the answer to how humans and the universe came about, what you are supposed to do on earth, what happens after you die and what actually happens after you die... not to disrespect any religions but what mystery does it leave?

science automatically assumes that there is a logical and scientifical reason for everything, leaving a mystery as to why, and how it occured... religion bases itself off of a greater power that is "all mighty"... if you believe in this, then there is no myster to anything

Originally Posted by Heep

Also, the consistency of Christianity says something for me. Science changes constantly - the earth was flat, now it's round, the earth has been around for 5 million years, now it's 5+ billion years, etc. Christianity, on the other hand, though mindsets and practices have evolved with the times, has stayed consistent - the earth was proclaimed a "circle" back in Isaiah's day (Isaiah 40:22) (far B.C.), and the age of the earth has stayed constant in the thousands of years (though an exact date is still conjecture, as it's not clearly expressed in the Bible). The fact that it's still providing material for scientists to argue about is certainly significant, in my view.

now im not completely sure what the difference of cathlic and christian is, but from what i understand they are pretty much the same... cathlics being more strict or something like that... someone please explain

Gallileo was forced to tell that his theory on the sun being the center of the universe was in fact false by the Catholic Church or else be killed because it disagreed with the religion... and as we all know today, he was wrong and the earth is in fact the center

also, the Pope had agreed to let the theory of evolution be acceptable in the cathlic religion, as long as god remained the creator

reasons why i am not christian
-i think that a lot of the stories in the bible are fake (just an opinion) like moses for one... if i ever see a sea split in half, i will instantly be converted trust me.. god in the bible, seems to do more radical "wonders" such as this, yet we never see them today... people say he still does miracles to people, helping them survive cancer, etc. but with all the people who are not christian, i would think if he could do anything, he could do something more amazing to help convert them... if that makes any sense
-its my understanding that moses could not go to the promise land because God told him to tap the rock once for water... he tapped it twice, and therefore he was banned.... it makes no sense to me that moses would do all this work, and then be banned for tapping a rock twice... and if it was true, i would have to ask myself, do i want to worship a god like this?
-i dont think that noah could fit every single living animal in the world on his boat... sorry
-idk about this one, but does the bible mention anything about dinosaurs?
-your not supposed to marry or have kids with your siblings, yet someone had to if god only made adam and eve... right?

Originally Posted by Heep

and I'm thrilled we all have that choice to believe in whatever we desire.

depends on where u live

anyways, we are all entitled to our opinions, this is just mine... i myself am athiest (i think that was kind of obvious) and i think more people will be this was in the future... if u can prove anything i said to be wrong, go ahead, i wont turn down learning something new

[Scorpion531]

I wasn't aware that science believed in ghosts?

No, im assuming it wasn't created. From your view, since it blew up 164,000 years ago that means the God created something that blew up 154,000 years before it was created? Thats way beyond just not being created new. Did God also create decaying creatures that died before they were created?

The way religion has people observe things that can be tested in various ways and shown to be actual events(the super nova could be seen with the naked eye, or in much greater detail with a telescope, but not only in the visable spectum but also radio and gamma rays are detected from it, also particles can be detected), with reasonable conclutions drawn from it(164,000yrs), but instead convice themselves and try to explain it away as some miracle of God (greatly speeding up light). Does it not seem strange to them that they need to make up those types of scenarios in the first place? Also I don't like how many believe unquestioningly in their beliefs when they can see other religious people also believe unquestioning in opposing beliefs. Wouldn't that make you stop and think what makes my religion so much more absolute than theirs and how can they believe in their religion as strongly as I believe in mine?

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by Scorpion531

Why won't it just die! Its time is up, it was ok back in ancient times when people did not know any better and it seemed like the best way to explain nature, but now when there have been the advances in science that have progressed far enough understand how things came to be, it needs to show some courtesy and bow out. My case in a point, all one needs to do is look at the stars to know the bible is wrong. For example SN 1987A a supernova that occured 50 kiloparsecs which is 164,000 lightyears away. A star blew up 164,000 years ago, and yet over 50% (muslims, jews and christians) of the earth's population believe in a religion that thinks the universe is around 10,000 years old.

Think about primitive cultures that freaked out during a solar eclipse, thinking that a monster was eating the sun. Of course their reckoning of time is not going to be correct, they only see the lights in the sky, they have no concept of starlight taking thousands of years to reach Earth. For these people, perhaps 10,000 years was "forever" so they didn't go beyond that. They had no training in mathematics and most could not write at all. So it's not suprising that they would attribute many things to a greater being.