the politics of eating, or, how big beef is destroying your health.

[lazysmurff]

*******************DISCLAIMER*********************
this discussion relies on the evolution of the human race for the past few million years. I understand that not everyone chooses to accept that the physical makeup of the human being has changed over time, or that we developed slowly from lesser beings. if you fall into the above catagory, please, do not turn this thread into a debate over evolution. if youd like to participate, at least agree to play along for the time being. thank you
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first order of business, a bit of history:

So, for the past...oh, six million years or so, the human being as we know it has been evolving. cool. whatever. well, for that past 6 million years our ancestors thrived on a diet that consisted of wild plants and game. read: a huge variety of fruits, vegetables, legumes, roots, etc and lean meat. now, a huge quantity of that diet consisted of grains. wheat, barley, oat, you get the picture. something like 60% of calorie intake consisted of these grains, cuz they were easy to farm. and what mean was eaten, was wild, and thus lean.

now, this diet was maintained for around 6 million years. relatively unchanged. in fact, even with the advent of "farming" animals (until fairly recently) meat remained virtually fat free. think 97/3 meat. extra extra lean. even up through the 1600/1700's people were eating like this, though it was slowly starting to change.

over the past 200 years (roughly since the industrial revolution) we have seen an extreme jump in the diets of human beings. now able to mass produce food on a previously unimaginable scale, we did. growing, harvesting, packaging and marketing food now changed from a necessity to a profitable business. so it was strealined. only the most proftiable crops were grown. the diet went from containing some 3000 varities of plants to around 20. the mass production made it possible for people to get picky and so the whole grain was no longer used, but processed out so bread would "taste better" and they could package and market it easier. etc.

but meat, well, meat was the big change. all of a sudden, more people could afford meat, and meat farmers were pushed to bring more and more meat to market. in amaerica, the main meat staple is and was beef. in order to make more money, cows are now fattened up to absurd proportions. even 100 years ago, the average cow was 15% smaller than the average cow now. we're consuming 70/30 beef without even blinking. fast food restruant beef is roughly 50/50, not counting the "leftovers" and soy product they use to flesh it out. growth hormones are injected into every cow and are foundin all the beef we buy. its a bad situation, so we'll leave it at that.

evolutionarily speaking, 200 years is a blink of an eye. from the paleolithic to the present, the human brain has shrunk 11% while this has nothing to do with intellegence, it has to do with the development of the nervous sytem. the increase in the nervous system development due to a huge increase in lean protien intake (due to that weird period when we were farming animals that were still as lean as they were in the wild) is what hailed the change from homo erectus to homo sapien. as a species, we're digressing, evolutionarily speaking. and it is directly related to our diet.

now, what does this have to do with politics? quite a bit. think back a few years. what huge news story had to do with the beef industry? if you guessed mad cow disease, you nailed it. think for a second about how much money that cost the beef industry. quite a bit. but very shortly after the mad cow scare, there came along this new diet craze, called the atkins diet. the idea was low carb intake and all the meat you can eat. "fantastic" says the big beef industry "lets fund research on this diet, give writers and doctors grants to write about how healthy it is and pull some political levers to make sure the FDA approves of it with flying colors"

now, stand back and think about our history lesson for a second. what we're now being told is to cut out what has been for the past 6 million years the largest staple in our lives and replace with something (artificially fatty, processed meats) that hasnt been in our diet but for the past 100 years or so. how healthy can that be? its no wonder people on low carb diets are developing bowel cancer. how knows what other long term affects this is going to have on people.

why does big beef (i just like saying that, it doesnt roll off the tongue like "big oil" but it still sounds funny) do this? well, to make money of course. but doesnt it strike you as wrong that they have enough politcal sway to get people to tell you its actually good for you?

i know i sound like a damn UFO conspiracy nut, but feel free to check it out and do the research for yourself. time magazine did a few articles on the big beef industries political pull with health organizations, as did newsweek i believe. im sure there are other sources. but those are the only ones i read. most of the dietary history came from "the origin of diet" by elizebeth somer. the rest was put together my me, cuz im bored and think about things like this.

[fredjacksonsan]

I agree that "Big Beef" isn't the good industry they portray themselves to be. However the Atkins diet has been in existence since the 70's, so promoting it as something started by the beef industry isn't accurate.

Have you read, "Fast Food Nation"? If not, you should. It's chilling.


The corpulent nation known as the US obviously has the wrong eating habits. I'd blame it as much on refined sugar as on the fatted meat industry.

[YogsVR4]

I blame it on gas. No gas. No cars. No drive throughs. No fast food.



Adkins has been around for decades.

[AlmostStock]

Yeah your right and beef isn't the only one I have a beef with. The dairy industry also does a good job of having its say in USDA nutritional guidelines, the food pyramid, product labeling rules etc. They both even make materials for schools to help "teach" our kids how to eat! You have to be at least a little cynical about that. The bottom line is if you really want to eat healthy you can't just go by what our government feeds us.

[BLU CIVIC]

US diet sux...i look at my belly every day in disgust then pop back some M&M's

if you want to see how the food today has changed us...look at our youth...to get the nutrients that we're loosing, instead of eating right, we're turning to supplaments

but they're changing the food pyramid to encourage us to make our bodies healthy again...but who looks at the food pyramid anyway

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

However the Atkins diet has been in existence since the 70's, so promoting it as something started by the beef industry isn't accurate.

this is true, and reading back over what i wrote, i agree its misleading. perhaps if i had said the recent surge in the popularity of the "low carb" diet, as opposed to speaking as though it was something new. my mistake. but i still maintain that the beef industry funded and helped push that diet on the people. and its an awful diet.

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

Have you read, "Fast Food Nation"? If not, you should. It's chilling.

its in the ever growing "to read" list. right there with "the mcdonaldization of society" and "harry potter and the half blood prince" w00t

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

I'd blame it as much on refined sugar as on the fatted meat industry.

ugh, refined sugar is awful too. and refined grains (like white bread) no wonder americans eat all the time, all the food they eat has such a terrible glycemic load that we never get full.

[T4 Primera]

Slightly OT here, but anyone interested in the manipulation of food stocks on a global scale should look into Monsanto (although Monsanto is a manufacturer of Bovine Growth Hormones - so kind of on topic).

Here's a few links from just a very breif google.

Monsanto's genetically-engineered Bovine Growth Hormone (rBGH) may speed the growth of human breast and prostate cancers.

Aspartame (NutraSweet) Formaldehyde Poisoning, Health Destruction, and Lawsuits

Genetically-Engineered "Frankenfoods"

Monsanto Terminator Technology -- Worldwide Famine & Starvation

Monsanto Sucks

Monsanto employees and government regulatory agencies employees are the same people!
Monsanto Stock Investment News

Monsanto in the McSpotlight

[KustmAce]

I both agree and disagree with you.

Yes, it is terribly obvious that the US diet has gone to hell. And yes, the industry has been making increasingly unhealthy products for the sake of profit.

But...

In the end, it comes down to the individual. It is easy to blame the companies. Its easy to blame McDonald's or Taco Bell and file lawsuits (hmm...) because Joe McFatass gained 200 lbs eating nothing but Big Macs for 20 years. But everyone has a choice. There are plenty of healthy restaurants and diets that are as plainly obvious as the Atkins diet was/is. People just ignore the healthy ones.

[sivic02]

Originally Posted by KustmAce

I both agree and disagree with you.

Yes, it is terribly obvious that the US diet has gone to hell. And yes, the industry has been making increasingly unhealthy products for the sake of profit.

But...

In the end, it comes down to the individual. It is easy to blame the companies. Its easy to blame McDonald's or Taco Bell and file lawsuits (hmm...) because Joe McFatass gained 200 lbs eating nothing but Big Macs for 20 years. But everyone has a choice. There are plenty of healthy restaurants and diets that are as plainly obvious as the Atkins diet was/is. People just ignore the healthy ones.

Took the words right out of my mouth. There are still plenty of choices and plenty of lean meat to be had at your local piggly wiggly. It is natural to slobber over a slab of fatback, it goes back to the origins of man. Back in the day (like caveman day) man was all into this hunting/gathering stuff (why they didnt go to the grocery store? im not sure). Sure there were good times, plenty of mammoth burgers and buffalo wings to go around. But a good bit of the time man didnt know if they were going to be able to eat the next day, week, etc. So since you dont know if you will eat for the next week, when you do eat you eat a lot, and you eat what has the most energy...fat. That is why humans love things fried in lard, its natural.

I have no beef with big beef. They are a company like any other, they will try to promote their product and will sell what people buy. It is up to the individual to make healthy choices in their diet. A good bit of the fatasses in the country can blame whoever they want, the truth is the only person you should blame is yourself. There are plenty of unprocessed (or semi-unprocessed) products that are more "natural", the produce section of your local grocery store has a large selection of fruits and veggies, i promise. An individual doesnt have to eat mcdonalds, or 70/30 beef, there are other choices. It is all up to the individual. I eat extremely healthy (granted I am also on a 5000 calorie a day diet so I never stop eating but still) I have no problem finding food that is healthy and easy to make/eat/find. Dont blame anything on big beef blame it on "Joe McFatass" and his decisions.

[T4 Primera]

I agree with the choice thing on the condition that you know what is in the food that you choose.
e.g.
Do you know what pesticides your fruit and veg were sprayed with?
Is the food you chose genetically engineered or altered?
Does the milk you drink come from a cow that was given hormones to make it produce more?

You may choose these things anyway, but unless they are labelled accurately it will not necesarily be an informed choice.

The other consideration is how much faith you place in the FDA that what is on the market is safe for consumption.

[sivic02]

Originally Posted by T4 Primera

I agree with the choice thing on the condition that you know what is in the food that you choose.
e.g.
Do you know what pesticides your fruit and veg were sprayed with?
Is the food you chose genetically engineered or altered?
Does the milk you drink come from a cow that was given hormones to make it produce more?

You may choose these things anyway, but unless they are labelled accurately it will not necesarily be an informed choice.

The other consideration is how much faith you place in the FDA that what is on the market is safe for consumption.

The EPA takes a pesticide and decides if it helps us (in killing the things we dont want) more than it hurts us (eh, a little poison is good for you) then it is ok. Considering the fact that many people have lived past the age of 3, I would say it is fairly safe to put a little faith into pesticides and them providing more benefit than harm.
Another crazy idea that helps get rid of some of the crap is washing your food, it might sound crazy but yes, washing food does get rid of crap on it, at least the snot from the 18 year old high school senior who just went to the bathroom and forgot to wash his hands is putting the food you plan on eating on the shelf/rack/etc.

The main problems with hormone juiced up cows are problems with the cows themselves. I dont mean to sound like a heartless bastard (I will never live this down if my liberal hippie friends hear this) but the cows that we are using for milk are there for our benefit. Things like this come from advances in biotechnology. You might think "Oh no! Taking the genetic code for production of hormone X, ctrl+c ing it from cows dna and ctrl+v ing it into ecoli is wrong, its not what god wants" Take it easy cowboy, it happens every day. Matter of fact my little university in bumfuck, sc takes "pieces" of dna, multiplies them, puts them into other organisms, takes them out to eat at mcdonalds, rents movies for them, buys them a beer at the bar, then sends them off to do whatever experiment they plan on doing with it. It isnt some crazy sci-fi tale about armageddon, this happens daily at a univeristy near you, get over it.

About the FDA thing, I go back to my statement that many 3 year olds have survived to reach the age of 4, thats good enough for me.



If anything I have said doesnt make much sense dont mind it, im fairly intoxicated by fda approved beer and non-fda approved peach moonshine, i blame it on the moonshine.

[fredjacksonsan]

The Monsanto articles were scary, especially the "Terminator" seeds. Imagine, since it spreads, that no one on a continent could grow corn. Or wheat. Very very bad.

[tenguzero]

Yeah, Monsanto has definately been into some tricky shit over the years (and managed to keep a lid on it pretty well.)

My beef (pun intended) with the FDA and many of these companies, isn't so much in the food availablility department (I have no trouble finding 93/7 ground beef in the meat case, and many supermarkets now offer entire bazaars worth of produce -- domestic and exotic) but in the PRICES for these items. It's no wonder the lower you go on the income "class" scale, the generally more unhealthy eating habits become. For instance: A sandwich bag-sized package of washed and cut carrot sticks costs $1.99 in the produce dept. of a grocery store I worked at. A bag of chips with twice the content in ounces goes for .99 cents. Beef averages around a 1.99-2.50 a pound or so, chicken goes for 3-4. You can buy a 4-pack of beef burger patties for less than $2. But for a 4-pack of veggie burgers, you're looking at 3.49 minimum. Whole-wheat costs more than the regular bleached stuff. Orange juice cost $2-3 for a half gallon -- you can get a 2-liter soda for 70-80 cents.

Bottom line? I bet we'd all be eating more healthy if it wasn't so damn expensive to do so. My produce alone probably counts for 1/2 to 2/3 of my bill, and because of that, I have a $50 shopping bill I can carry out to the car with two hands. I have seen what my $50 can get me if I just go with a majority of canned and boxed stuff off the shelves as well, and let me tell you, it's a lot more food. And this is just for me. If you're a parent with a family of 4 or 5 to feed, and money is tight (as it is for many of us) the second scenario might just make more sense, especially if your own eating habits aren't exactly stellar to begin with (and statistics say this is quite common, at least here in the U.S.)

[TexasF355F1]

I look at it like this. Pretty much anything you eat and/or drink is not necessarily clean or 100% safe to consume. Everything gives your cancer or some sickness. There are both pro and con effects from everything you put in your body. Just do so in moderation and be conscious of what you eat and drink.

[lazysmurff]

i hear you on the choices thing. i choose not to eat at mcdonalds or other fast food establishments. i choose to eat only whole grain breads. i dont eat candy or candy bars, etc...(though i cannot deny my affection for Dr Pepper, we all have our vices)

but the problem is, and the point i was trying to make that got diluted, that big beef has had a serious hand in telling us what is good for us and what isnt. your choices are only as good as the information you have to make them with.

if someone is lying to you and telling you that you dont need carbohydrates (big beef via the FDA, who is telling you low and no carb diets are ok) then something is wrong. the people are being fed false information, and while they are making personal choices with it, those choices are hurting them, when they think they are being helped.

you could never eat fast food, eat moderate quantities of food, and still be eating unhealthily (is that a word?) because your following food guidlines that are influenced by big business. and thats wrong.

and just a side note, there are several things wrong with growth hormones besides the ways it affects the cattle. one of the theories behind why little girls (think 4th and 5th grade) are having their periods is because they are ingesting so much meat injected with hormones thats its messing with their bodies, and another reason why people are getting obesse. its not just the over eating, its what youre eating as well.