Motor Broke - Fix, Replace, or Dump Car?

[GregA]

Well it happened ... Right after getting it working again.



While driving, a heater hose (or clamp) came loose and dumped all the coolant (on a 95 degree day). This was first noticed on the freeway when a "Clank - Clank" sound happened. By that time, the motor was HOT (temp gauge way in the red). By the time it was pulled over to the shoulder of the road, the motor quit.

Making a long story short, the dealer said "The motor is cooked". Asking for further details, the service guy said "No compression".
This is (was) a 1992 Cherokee Larado 4WD (almost never used in 4 wheel mode) with 118K miles.

So here are the questions:
1) Has anyone fixed (had rebuilt) or replaced a 4.0L recently?
2) What do you think a rebuilt (or remanufactured) motor would cost & how must labor time would be involved (for a shop - not me)?
3) Should I get rid of it and start shopping for a replacement vehicle (which I can't really afford).

The wife really liked the Jeep (being "higher up" then the other cars), and was thinking about getting a paint job to make it last another 5 year/50K miles (which I have heard these car will go). She is BUMBED OUT.

Any experience or opinions welcome.

Take Care,

[Saudade]

Where is it now? Have you tried to start it since cooling down?

I have an '88 that overheated to the point of shutdown (burst collant bottle), but the computer shut it down to prevent damage. Once I replaced the bottle and filled everything back up, all was well.

There are LOTS of threads here about reman vs rebuilt. If you can;t do any of it, you should call around to some local shops (not the dealership) and get some quotes.

BTW: My '88 has 165K and still runs strong on the original motor.

[crazycory1]

Never trust dealers, 99% of the time they rip you off.

[JDPascal]

I'm with Saudade.

Get it checked out again.

From the sounds of it, a reman engine would likely be the way that I would go if I were you - IF you need it. The R&R of a reman gets you on the road alot sooner and you have the reman waranty that is usually better than the shop.

Take it to a reputable shop. Not a dealer.
They can shoot a teaspoon size amount of oil into each cylinder to pre lube it before trying to start it.

Some shops have a tool called a bore-o-scope. They use it to inspect the cylinder walls for damage without takeing the engine apart.

Once it is going, do a compression check and have them check the cooling system - Pressure test, combustion gas check(for cracked head), replace the rad cap, thermostat, antifreeze and any hoses that are suspect.

Since it was a hose clamp that came off, I would ask them to check all of the clamps and to put a (yellow or red) PAINT mark on every hose clamp that they check. That way you can tell that they actually did the check.

Just some ideas to help get your wife un-bummed out (which is what this is really all about anyway)!!!!

JD

[GregA]

Originally Posted by JDPascal

...
Just some ideas to help get your wife un-bummed out (which is what this is really all about anyway)!!!!

JD

JD,

You are ABSOLUTELY correct!

Thanks for the encouragement.

[GregA]

Originally Posted by Saudade

Where is it now? Have you tried to start it since cooling down?

I have an '88 that overheated to the point of shutdown (burst collant bottle), but the computer shut it down to prevent damage. Once I replaced the bottle and filled everything back up, all was well.

There are LOTS of threads here about reman vs rebuilt. If you can;t do any of it, you should call around to some local shops (not the dealership) and get some quotes.

BTW: My '88 has 165K and still runs strong on the original motor.

It was cooled off because the dealer could not look at it till the next day. But ... we are talking about a DEALER SHOP that I have never been to and don't know their reputation.

I am thinking I will have it towed (or flat-bedded) to my "trusted mechanic" and have them take a look. They will let me know the truth within an hour or so, and will probably only charge me an hour labor, if that.

I would REALLY like to be able to get it running again.

Thanks,

[Dansjeep89]

I had my 1989's jeep engine replace with a 1997 jeep cherokee engine two weeks ago. The 1997 engine only has 45,000 miles on it and it cost me $1,642 to have it put in. I know that my jeep probably isn't even worth $1,600, but I love my jeep and just had to replace the engine.

Now my jeep RUNS great. Well, there you go. Thats about how much it will cost.

Daniel

[AlohaBra]

Originally Posted by GregA

Well it happened ... Right after getting it working again.



While driving, a heater hose (or clamp) came loose and dumped all the coolant (on a 95 degree day). This was first noticed on the freeway when a "Clank - Clank" sound happened. By that time, the motor was HOT (temp gauge way in the red). By the time it was pulled over to the shoulder of the road, the motor quit.

Making a long story short, the dealer said "The motor is cooked". Asking for further details, the service guy said "No compression".
This is (was) a 1992 Cherokee Larado 4WD (almost never used in 4 wheel mode) with 118K miles.

So here are the questions:
1) Has anyone fixed (had rebuilt) or replaced a 4.0L recently?
2) What do you think a rebuilt (or remanufactured) motor would cost & how must labor time would be involved (for a shop - not me)?
3) Should I get rid of it and start shopping for a replacement vehicle (which I can't really afford).

The wife really liked the Jeep (being "higher up" then the other cars), and was thinking about getting a paint job to make it last another 5 year/50K miles (which I have heard these car will go). She is BUMBED OUT.

Any experience or opinions welcome.

Take Care,

The 97 to 2001 ---the newer body style and the last built for USA comsumption....are available for $4000 and up.
I just bought a 2001-2WD-4DR-Sport with 52k for $12000...+ tax and stuff.
My 97 4WD Sport is blue booked at $4000 (125k)....
so take your pick.

The new 2005 Grand with "Hemi" is "kul" too.

[GregA]

UPDATE:

Just thought I would update everyone as to what is happening. The paperwork from the dealer said that they found the heater hose disconnected, but when I looked at it, I couldn't really tell which one was off (it was reconnected). The only one that LOOKS like it might have been reconnected is the lower heater hose (as it comes from the engine). I thought I saw a "clean spot" near where the hose connects to a metal tube.

A quote from the paperwork:
"CRANKED ENGINE AND IT SOUNDED LIKE LOW OR NO COMPRESSION, CONFIRMED BY CHECKING COMPRESSION ON #3 CYLINDER, ONLY HAD TEN POUNDS COMPRESSION."

The dealer's recommendation was to "REPLACE THE ENGINE DUE TO INTERNAL FAILURE" at a cost of just over $5000.

This "report" cost me $128.

Anyway, I had it towed to my trusted mechanic and had them see if anything else could be done. They offered to look into it for $0. I guess there is an advantage to going to the same place for more than 5 years and "getting to know" the folks there.

They seem to think that a valve job will get it running again. They said that there was no metal in the oil or oil pan, and that there was ZERO compression on cylinder #1, which probably means a valve stuck open.

They have offered to do the complete valve job for $900. I asked if they were to start the job and discover that it was more than the valves (and higher cost), how long would it take to get to that point. He said probably a couple of hours (@ $75/hr).

So I told them to go ahead and start the job, and if they discovered more damage to let me know.

So that's where we are right now. I don't expect to hear back until tomorrow, but if I get an update from them, I will let you know.

Thanks for listening (reading),

[MagicRat]

Good job. Regardless of the car avoid the dealer for everything except warranty related work.
Let us know how things work out, please.

[GregA]

Originally Posted by GregA

...I don't expect to hear back until tomorrow, but if I get an update from them, I will let you know.

Thanks for listening (reading),

Another Update:
Saw the head off the engine today. Looks like this problem has existed for a while before surfacing. There was RUST on the top of a few of the pistons and around the valves - NOT GOOD. Of course the head gasket was "puffed up" around the worst spots (between cyliners 2 & 3 if I recall).

Another note: They said there were not any "guide pins" between the head and the block. Supposed to have a "pin" in each end to keep them aligned, but they were not there. Just the bolts were holding the two pieces together and aligned. So I guess the engine has had some work done on it that I didn't know about (2 previous owners).

Anyway, the head was taken to a machine shop where they discovered that it was cracked in a couple of spots. So my shop buddies were able to locate another head relatively close by to replace the cracked one.

The good news: No machine shop charges. The bad news: the replacement head will bump the total repair cost up another $200-$300.

So that's where we're at now. Hopefully that will get it all fixed up.

Oh yeah, I took some videos of the cylinders, head, & gasket.
If anyone is interested, I can try to either:
a) put them into a video file for viewing or
2) try to extract some "still images" off the tape.

Take Care,

[MagicRat]

Make sure the new (used) head is rebuilt, where the valves valve seats and guides have been serviced (resurfaced or replaced) and it is guarenteed to be straight and free of cracks.
Do not just install a used head off another motor without having it rebuilt. Since rebuilt heads are about $300, thats likely what you are getting.

Also, the pistons are aluminum and do not rust. You may have been seeing normal combustion deposits that have accumulated in the engine. Some chemicals used in gasoline (like MTBE) leave dry fluffy tan or brown deposits on spark plugs, pistons etc. This is normal and not something to be concerned about.

[Carlson327]

FYI--found rebuilt engines online at http://www.rebuilt-jeep-engines.com/

guaranteed for 7/70K

Just a suggestion.

[GregA]

ANOTHER UPDATE:

Well the rebuilt head was put on sometime in the last day or two. I was looking forward to having the Jeep back. But here is the thing ... while the car will idle just fine at normal indications (temp, oil pressure, etc.), while test driving the temperature goes up above what was "normal" before.

It used to hang around just at 210 degrees or maybe a little more (according to the gauge). If it ever got much higher then that, the electric fan would kick in and cool it back down to about 210.

During the test drive, the temperature got just into the "red zone", which I believe is about 230 and I could hear the electric fan running. I pulled over and turned it off. I opened the hood and looked into the overflow bottle, which was bubbling and was pretty full.

So I started it up again and turned on the heater full blast (supplemental radiator ). I have used this trick in the past on other cars and it worked this time too (came back down to around 210).

I took it back to the shop where we let it cool down enough to take the radiator cap off. At that time, the radiator was full (coolant to the top) and the overflow bottle was down to a little below the "Full Cold" mark (about 1/3 of the bottle). The bottle was filled back to the mark, and the guess was that there may have been an air pocket in the system.

So I went out for another test drive and the temperature seemed to hang around 210, until I could actually accelerate a bit and "use" the motor (I was in slow traffic at first). It then started to climb back up toward the red zone. By the time I got back near the shop, it was just below the first part of the red.

Since my mechanic was short on help today, he couldn't really do much more investigation into it. We are wondering if the radiator is having trouble. So I am looking for some ideas.

Summary of what was changed:
- Rebuilt Cylinder Head & Gasket Set
- New Spark Plugs
- New Temperature Sending Unit (the one for the gauge)
- New Thermostat (192 degrees)
- New Coolant
- Oil & Filter

Thanks,

[MagicRat]

This is a useful post from another website on this issue:


Ok...there seem to be too many threads with "my xj is overheating" or "yet another overheating thread" or "it only overheats when..." and I am going to try to answer them all and maybe we can get this to become a sticky or maybe posted somewhere.

All cherokees from the factory have a cooling system which is designed to remove heat from the engine and transfer it away. Coolant being pumped by a water pump flows through cooling jackets/passages in the head and block of the engine. It flows around exhaust and intake ports and around the cylinders. From there it goes to the radiator which had hundreds of small fins to increase surface area and that allows as much air as possible to take heat away from the coolant and the cycle repeats istelf over and over.

Chrysler opted for a mechanical clutch style cooling fan to draw air over the radiator to cool at idle and slow speeds. Some models depending on options also have an electric fan for optional A/C or towing package which turns on with a/c (on 2000 and 2001 xjs it turns on with a/c only when pressure in the lines goes past 300 psi) or when coolant temperature exceeds between 218-224 degrees F.

When working correctly and all parts are maintained, this setup works great.

Here are some reasons your cherokee would overheat (240+f) at idle but not at 30+mph:
Fan clutch worn out
Old coolant
Aux. electric fan not turning on
blocked radiator or coolant passages
Low fluid level
Low engine oil level
Water pump impeller wearing causing low flow at slow speeds
clogged radiator fins or air blockage to radiator
Damaged fan shroud
Retards who upgrade engines and leave stock cooling system


If your cherokee overheats on the highway 240+F:

Clogged passages
Stuck closed thermostat
Towing a heavy load up a grade on a hot day w or w/o ac on (temp. overheat)
contaminated coolant
bad waterpump
clogged radiator fins
blocked airflow
brakes sticking/ebrake on

If you overheat on the highway and NOT at slower speeds / idle:

partial blocked passages not flowing enough for highway engine demand but flows enough at idle.
Radiator blocked or fins clogged for same reason above
Brakes sticking
Overloading


Also, xj's have tight engine compartments and they will run 220ish in the summer with a/c on or off and that is NORMAL for xj's. Other vehicles have different coolant temps that they are designed to run well at so dont do too much comparing such as " my Taco runs 210 even though I beat it half way to hell) Thats great...I only like taco from taco bell and the one she gives me...but anyway

Another thing to note...fan clutches run about 40bux new depending where you go. With personal issues there is no TRUE way to test a clutch because they fail soo many ways (trust me). Next time your engine is getting very hot, open the hood and feel the air the fan is pulling...rev er up some and if its not hurricane force, then replace that clutch. With the new body style xj's they upgraded the E-fan to a higher flow rate...so that might be an option for upgrades.