getting my 20g setup soon. Questions.

[MoozillaGSX]

ok liek title says im purchasing my 20g setup soon form a guy off the east coast, the guy is awosme hes fun to talk with a very knowledgeable ( is that how you spell it ? ) about DSM's or any car in general. but i mostly only get to talk to him through E-mail cause hes very busy guy with 2 jobs, the 3 hour time Diff doesnt help ether.

this is the setup. turbotrix 20g (port, cliped) - Spearco FMIC+pipes - Turbotrix ported Mani + External WG flange - Tial 38mm gate with custom turbotrix dump pipe - ported O2 house - Buschur 3" DP to a test pipe to greddy Exhast . + a few other things that come wit hthe deal.

ok thats the beef of the setup. I plan to buy this, get my T-belt and all that good stuff done. then my Clutch + flywheel, then i want to install all my soon to be new goodies. is their anything im missing as far as things that i HAVE to do?? i wanted to do a compresion check before i ran that turbo setup. ill be asking for help on that later

i wont break nothing will i ?? anyone have any concerns for my plans ( besides my saftey after i get everything done LOL ) please feel free o share your thoughts i dont want to mess anything up. ( i cant aford to lol )

[Whathits14]

For a 20g I would get a 255lph with a FPR and at least some 720's. 550's will be useless on a turbo that big...650s might cut it but I would get bigger just in case. Get a wideband o2 to tune that fuel, but your setup look pretty good.

When it is tuned you will be pushing the limits of the stock internals, so be careful...try to stay under 400hp...your car should rape tho...

[george536]

my friend had 550's with a 56trim and ran like 18psi for a while. took him a long time to spool.

[kjewer1]

650s will cover a 20G on a 2g, but would be pushing it on a 1g. They are that close, just the base pressure change becomes important Going bigger than 650s starts to get risky IMO. As an example:

At 40 lbs/min at 7000 rpm, you are at 2.5 grams/rev airflow. So you are over the 2.1 g/rev point and timing will make sense. BUT, with a correction factor of 31% for 650s, multiply by .69, and you can see that the ECU will see 1.7 g/rev. That is a very unsafe way to tune in my opinion and in my experience. And thats for stock 9.5:1 AFR! You would be another 14% leaner to be at 11:1 AFR, or about 1.48 g/rev. The ECU is going to give you a lot of timing at this level.

Going to 750s would put you at 1.34 g/rev. As g/rev goes down (below 2.1 of course) timing goes UP. Of course you are still actually moving that 40 lbs/min. Just thinking of tuning like this really stresses me out DSMlink really should be on your list, especially since you have a 95!! The AFC and logger will run nearly as much as DSMlink.

Modify your setup to include DSMlink and 950s and a that 20g setup will be ready for you to make the most of it. When my car was the most fun it had the 06H 20g. Hardly lagged more than the 16 with 25 psi coming on at 3700 rpm. And I ran that 25 psi on pump daily. DSMlink was the only reason I got away with that safely. I would consider it a must do, if not now then in the near future. It's something that will always be there for you, and will grow with you and your setup. A wise investment.

[MoozillaGSX]

whats odd is that the guy was runing 550's and he said thats their just fine for the setup and thats how he ran it ...and his 95 GSX was dyno'd at 384 horses. a couple of people so far have told me that 550's will be just fine for this setup.

but now im really curious as to why i should get 950's ?

oh yea and how much can you guys find DSM link for ?? every time i see it, its very expensive...way more than a AFC+Loger. i can penny pich my way towards 250-300 for the afc and logger. what DSM link worth? and if you guys can find them for a bitchen deal SHOW ME! lol

[EclipseRST]

550s are plenty for a 20g. Believe it or not, a friend made 436AWHP on a buschur TDO6H 20g with 550s and pump gas. (92 octane) 97% injector duty. Never tried with race gas but he was just fine for fuel.

If you have DSMlink, 950s would be the way to go because no matter what your goals are all the way up to 7-800hp, you'll never have to worry about injectors.

Its all up to what your goals are for this car. If your not going any bigger than a 20g for the time you have it then go smaller if you want. If you want to go bigger later then upgrade the injectors now since it wont hurt you at all to do so.

[kjewer1]

436 is weak for a 20g though. If he had tried to approach its capacity of over 500 whp, he's be looking for a motor now. I only recomend injectors and pump that will cover the max flow of the turbo. This way if boost gets away from you (boost controller line pops off for example) there is enough fuel available to save the motor.

If an AFC/logger is going to be 300, then dSMlink only costs you 300 bucks. That is how I would look at it. Get it directly from www.dsmlink.com, its just under 600 bucks. It doesnt get any better. With the AFC and larger injectors tuning will always be halfassed, despite the fact that we are usually able to make it work well enough. If 300 for better engine management is too much, don't spend so much on upgrades you aren't willing to properly support

I used to fall into this same category... I could spend 6 grand on the car during one offseason, but was still to cheap to spend 300 bucks on a wideband. Unreal... Spend the money on things like DSMlink and a WBO2 early on, and you will always have them, no matter how often you change your setup. Things like this really are a wise investment.

If this sounds like a plublic service announcement, I get really bitter when I wake up at 3 am on a day off

[MoozillaGSX]

my main goal was jus tto reach 300 HP. but i ofund suc ha great deal for this whole setup that i couldnt pass it up. im prity poor right now. thats the only reason im not saying "ok ill get DSM link" if i can afford it i will defintly get it, like if i find a great deal on one some ones selling because htier going the stand alone rout and they sell it for 300. i would totaly buy that. i just like to save money because i dont have very much of it. i try to find things i want for much less than the average price.

i still have to get and AFC and injectors, if 550's will be fine for the 20g. then ill definetly stick to that caus im not looking to go any bigger than the 20g.

[kjewer1]

550s will be good to around 40 lbs/min. Not enough to cover a 20g. If you dont plan to run it higher than that, and trust your boost control, you can try it. If you come across the money later on, I would suggest selling the AFC and logger and getting DSMlink. Its always an option, especially since you more than likely have a eprom ecu. Good luck.

[MoozillaGSX]

what is an Eprom cu and how would i find out for sure ?? and ive read a little about the DSMlink but i still dont fully understand what exataly it can do. is it a data logger + afc....just better ? understanding always makes me feel better.

[kjewer1]

DSMlink just is.

At www.tmo.com there are directions and pics for seeing if you have an eprom ECU. At www.dsmlink.com there is a bunch of info and screen shots, you can even download the software and play with it.

[MoozillaGSX]

DSMlink is the same as haveing SAFC+Logger right ?? if not explain the basic diferences....and what it does exactaly thats makes it so much betetr than a SAFC and logger ? thanks.

[guitarXgeek]

Originally Posted by MoozillaGSX

DSMlink is the same as haveing SAFC+Logger right ?? if not explain the basic diferences....and what it does exactaly thats makes it so much betetr than a SAFC and logger ? thanks.

OMG, why don't you just go through the website and read what it can do? If we had to explain all of the differences we'd end up typing a 20 paragraph response. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but just going through the website and reading everything it can do should tell you exactly why it is literally 1,000,000,000 (1 billion for you lazy bastards ) times better than an AFC/Logger combo. Honestly, if the price for dsmlink was $1000 I still would have bought it because that is how much it's worth to me, no joke.

In a very small nutshell, the AFC is a terrible, terrible way to tune a car compared dsmlink. Dsmlink basically has most of the capabilities of full standalone, but has the user-friendliness and product support that any average joe can understand/use. In fact, the whole purpose of dsmlink was to be an incredibly easy to use piece of software that utilizes the stock ecu (EPROM only) to retain stock-like drivability.

The SAFC has NO advantages over dsmlink, NOTHING WHATSOEVER. If you honestly think paying ~$200 less for something that can only trick the ecu in order to "tune" (which by the way will completely fuck with your timing advance) is worth it, then you are in the wrong business, sir. I really don't see why everyone doesn't have dsmlink. Other than the fact that it requires an EPROM ecu (which you most likely already have), I think it should be a mandatory upgrade for all dsm's

Seriously, go to the website and read through everything. That alone will be enough to persuade you into buying it. Once you get it and you gain access to the dsmlink forums, you'll see that the non-stop growth and customer/technical support for dsmlink is what makes dsmlink users like myself so crazy about it

[MoozillaGSX]

Originally Posted by guitarXgeek

OMG, why don't you just go through the website and read what it can do? If we had to explain all of the differences we'd end up typing a 20 paragraph response. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but just going through the website and reading everything

ya i guess i should get a bigger brain so that i dont have to ask questions when i dont understand things anymore huh ?...yep thats what i think ill do. all i got out of all that was your opinion. which is great in all but no where near answering my questions.

at least you kinda of explained what the SAFC does while makeing me look dumb for not undertsanding somthing when you mentioned that the AFC only tricks the ECU which is aparently bad. so thanks....kind of.

i did go through the links that Kevin gave me. but all i saw where tons of options that i have no clue what the hell they do plus i dont have a laptop which would cost me even more moeny that i dont curently have.


just kinda of picture showing a 1 year old a 1 dollar bil land in the other hand a 100 dollar bill......ether way he has no clue wich one is better.... he has to undertsand why the 100 dollar bill is better before he will get exited. duno if thats the best analogy but whatever i guess you can rip on me for that too or somthing.....anyways thanks for the info. ill just go ask some one soemwhere else who will lay it down for me so ill undertsand better without getin punched in the face first.

and for some one who suposedly knows so much and isnt willing to share the knowledge of this great tool you sure did type an aful lot just to beat around the bush. all i wanted was a little information on what it does compared to the SAFC and why thats so much better, thanks.

[guitarXgeek]

Originally Posted by MoozillaGSX

ya i guess i should get a bigger brain so that i dont have to ask questions when i dont understand things anymore huh ?...yep thats what i think ill do. all i got out of all that was your opinion. which is great in all but no where near answering my questions.

at least you kinda of explained what the SAFC does while makeing me look dumb for not undertsanding somthing when you mentioned that the AFC only tricks the ECU which is aparently bad. so thanks....kind of.

i did go through the links that Kevin gave me. but all i saw where tons of options that i have no clue what the hell they do plus i dont have a laptop which would cost me even more moeny that i dont curently have.


just kinda of picture showing a 1 year old a 1 dollar bil land in the other hand a 100 dollar bill......ether way he has no clue wich one is better.... he has to undertsand why the 100 dollar bill is better before he will get exited. duno if thats the best analogy but whatever i guess you can rip on me for that too or somthing.....anyways thanks for the info. ill just go ask some one soemwhere else who will lay it down for me so ill undertsand better without getin punched in the face first.

and for some one who suposedly knows so much and isnt willing to share the knowledge of this great tool you sure did type an aful lot just to beat around the bush. all i wanted was a little information on what it does compared to the SAFC and why thats so much better, thanks.

Wow, if you think my post was "punching you in the face" then you really need to grow up and learn to take some advice, no matter how it's given to you. The reason I didn't go over EVERYTHING dsmlink does is because it would take, like I originally said, PAGES of explanations that I don't really feel like typing up. Maybe you can find someone else on here that can devote that kind of time to explain every detail about dsmlink.

Actually, if you were smart you would have listed the features of dsmlink that confused you or that you didn't understand. Now THAT I don't mind explaining, but I will not go through everything dsmlink has just because you don't understand it. Go here and read all of this page as well as all of the other pages in the Details section if you haven't already done so - http://www.dsmlink.com/details-overview.html If there are some things you don't understand in there, please let me know what they are and I will gladly explain them to you the best I can.

Next time try to be a little more specific with things you don't understand, pertaining to anything. This makes the job of those who like to help people a little easier. Just a heads-up