Going About It All Wrong?

[SoCalLove]

Hi,

Maybe some of you have seen my other post. If not, I’m debating what car to get for my first “real” street worthy car. Anyways, my main problem right now is whether to get RWD, FWD, or AWD. I know that the obvious decision is to get a RWD or AWD but please hear me out.

When I do race (More like screwing around) with my friends, I highly doubt we would ever be going over 80 MPH (Yes, were pussy’s but we actually want to live, so sue me. ). Since were not going to be very serious I was wondering if RWD/AWD is very important as getting good gas mileage is even more important to me as this is my daily driver. But also, is FWD that bad? I've seen a picture of a Nissan Sentra SE-R beating a WRX so it makes me think twice about whether to get FWD or RWD/AWD. I mean think about it, th extra money that I don't spend on gas for a FWD (Sure it may not be that much but it's something.) I could be spending on upgrades.

So, for my type of driving that I will be doing, do you think it’s really worth it for RWD/AWD? What do you think will suit me best? Please, I know that most of you will say go RWD/AWD because it’s better starts, and I know it is, but the gas mileage is very important to me.

Sorry for being so anal and sorry for the essay. Thanks in advance!

[CassiesMan]

If you really want to go fast, and feel safer doing it, go AWD/RWD. I've been 115 in my car, then 115 in my friends FWD Lexus, and it felt like two very, very different worlds. Hell, I've been far past the 120 mark in my car, and felt safe. Shit, when I had my car at 155, I felt totally in control, which, when going fast, is a big key. It may be the car, maybe the drivetrain, I dunno, but I have always felt more in controll and more stable going fast in a RWD/AWD car. If you plan on really racing later on, not just messing around with freinds, your also starting at a major disadvantage. I have owned both FWD and RWD, and driven AWD cars, and personally, I will never own a FWD car again. Regardless of fuel economy/style/whatever. But thats just me, and I'll be stepping off my soapbox now.

[SoCalLove]

Okay, thanks. Since were not even going to be breaking 100 (We migh, but highly unlikely.) do you think the unstabability would become a factor? Anyone else have an opinion?

[CassiesMan]

Well, my buds lexus felt wobbly at 115, and my Rav4 felt hella wobbly past 80...but it really depends on the car.

[tha_new_guy]

If you're just puttering around with your friends from stoplight to stoplight, and you don't plan on aggressive driving, sanctioned racing, etc. don't worry about it. Get a FWD car and be happy with it. Don't let the RWD purists or AWD junkies (me included) talk you out of what you want.

Just a note, however, there are RWD cars out there that will get decent mileage. A miata (don't laugh) can be made quick, MR2's are ok on gas, just do your research.

And launching a FWD car from a light generally results in the driver fighting wheelhop, torque steer, etc. till he gets moving. This can be improved with modifications to your suspension, but it doesn't sound like you're that serious.




Whatever, get a Honda and be done with it.

[SoCalLove]

Okay, thanks guy. Yeah, most of our racing will just be stoplight to stoplight, maybe even shorter.

I have been looking at the MX-5 but I'm not a huge fan of the super small body. Also, I would get an MR2 but I've just heard of way to many spinouts and crashes to get one. I'm too scared.

Any other opinions are welcome!

[-The Stig-]

See my post here.

[RaidenKing]

so you're aiming towards saving some money on your gas mileage but want to spend the saved money on upgrades. Well I'm thinking upgrades aren't going to help your gas mileage so I'm not really sure what direction you want to go here.

An SE-R taking a WRX is very possible but believe me when I tell you that the SE-R was not stock. The more power you desire, the more gas mileage you sacrifice so i guess we need to find a little in betweener for you.

Read Red's post, its pretty good and listen to the new guy, go with what you want.


Edit - just to squeeze in a last bit of advice here. Since you are planning on just going from light to light then AWD is obviously the best choice for those lower speed sprints as cars like the eclipse gsx (same as eagle talon tsi awd) and subaru wrx tend to get up to 60 a little quicker than the others on the launch. Stock both cars are turbocharged, net around 210-222hp and get pretty good gas mileage. The good thing about a turbocharged car is you can have that speed when you want it but you can also shift low to keep yourself out of the spooling range of the turbo and get pretty damn good mileage... At least, this is what I know from my experience.

[PWRDbyUNCLEbens]

By no means would I prefer fwd from a performance standpoint. I will however IMHO tell you that FWD or AWD will be more safe if you plan on messing around the street.

In the rain you won't spin out at easily or in taking high speed turns. In my experience I've had my rear end step out a bit when going around a corner, and it's easy to control, and get back on track.

I've never driven Rwd, but I assume it would have been much harder to have brought it back as there is more oversteer, and less traction (it would seem) in the drive wheels..

I say all of this because I was once racing my friend, around a long turn, and he spun out while I stayed fine. I'm sure it was largely in part to his bad driving, but still I think FWD or even better AWD will keep you in more forgiving hands.

You can definantley have fun driving, a FWD car. Remember once you feel you've exhausted yourself with fwd move up.

[SoCalLove]

Okay, thanks for all of the help guys. Sorry about the confusion for the gas mileage comment. I know that I won't be getting good gas mileage when I'm racing but when I'm just cruising I was hoping to get around 23 - 25 MPG (Obviously the higher the better.).

RaidenKing - Yeah, I knew the SE-R wasn't stock (I believe it was turboed or something) I was just bringing it up to show where I'm getting the idea that FWD isn't that bad. I thought maybe I was thinking about it wrong or something and that you guys could maybe straighten me out.

Anyways, I've been looking at some FWD and AWD cars. Here's a mini list of what I've been looking at so far:

- Pontiac Grandprix GTP
- 1993-1997 Nissan Altima (Heard these are fast with a KA24DE in them.)
- VW Jetta 1.8T
- Mitsu Galant VR4 (Not sure how the VR4 affects the gas mileage but I know the normal Galant's get good gas mileage.)
- 1995ish Subaru Impreza AWD
- Mazda MX6
- Early to mid 90's Toyota Celica
- Acura Integra GSR

Out of these which do you think would be the best for me? I would get the Z28 but I've read (On fueleconomy.gov) that it only gets around 20 MPG, I was hoping for a little bit more. Anyways, I'm starting to ramble now so I'll shutup.

Thank you!

[PWRDbyUNCLEbens]

Well sorry to burst your bubble but most of those cars dont get but a little over 20mpg. If you could find a galant vr4 buy it, and hold on to it like the golden ticket from charlie and the chocolate factory.

[SoCalLove]

I think I'll probably be going the FWD route for a couple of reasons. First of all, gas mileage is generally better with FWD. Secondly, the RWD cars that I were planning on getting were more sporty cars so insurance would be up. And finally, I know that FWD cars can get to something like a 13 second quarter mile (Probably the fastest I would ever need to go.), which is fine for me. If I was going to be pushing it to go harder though, I would probably get a RWD because if I recall correctly, it would be easier to get a RWD to run 11s than it would a FWD. Is my thinking correct?

Anyways, with that out of the way, I've looked at quite a few cars yet I still can't decide which one. Here are the cars that I've been looking at:

- Nissan Sentra
- Toyota Celica (90's Model)
- Acura Integra
- Nissan Altima (1993-1997)
- Nissan 200SX SE-R
- Mazda MX6

Are there any here that jump out at you right away that you wouldn't recommend? Are there any that you would recommend? Why?

Thank you!

[JekylandHyde]

All things being equal, FWD will always be slower off the launch.

As for gas milage, my 88 MR2 gets 33-37 mpg and it is RWD. Hyde, RWD MR2 370+ rwhp, car gets 25+ mpg. My 91 non-turbo MR2 (Jekyl) gets about 32 mpg.

[SoCalLove]

Man, this is killing me. I would love to get the MR2. It's fast, affordable, and gets good gas mileage. But there are just so many things keeping me from getting one:

1) Mid Engine: When it starts to spin, exceptionally tricky to recover. When it lets go, it gets ugly really fast.
2) Rear Wheel Drive: Go into a corner too fast and you can’t brake or lift off the throttle to save it. In fact, you have to either keep a steady foot on the gas, or even give it more throttle to keep the car from spinning This means you actually have to try to go faster when you are about to lose it from going too fast in order to keep the car from spinning.
3) Short Wheel Base: Little to no warning when you have exceeded the car’s limits.
4) McPherson struts: Car does not like bumps or surface irregularities mid corner. Hit a pothole or uneven surface and watch the tail step out of line.
5) Turbo: Lag/Boost is very tricky to modulate – especially on a modified car. If you need extra power to exit a corner and the turbo is not spooled because you let the revs drop or are in the wrong gear = you’re screwed. Hit boost early to mid corner when you’re close to the tire’s limits of adhesion = bye-bye.

That was copied from MR2oc.com just to let you guys know. Anyways, JekylandHyde, do you agree with these guys or do you think that the MR2 can make a good first car if you know your limits and stay within them?

Thank you!

[JekylandHyde]

I basically had an MR2 as my first car and I only wrecked 6 of them until I got it right