"Tickers" - if you knew then, what ....

[Ramblin Fever]

you know now - would you have used synthetic oil?

This post is long, but please read, I would like your opinion, and really think about what I'm saying.

I know many of us tickers have 6-9 yr old vehicles, and synthetics were still kind of shakey in the thought of using.

However, the more I read up on this issue - the ticking, and the "make sure to change the oil every 3K miles", in which I have religiously done so since 11K miles (when purchased). Yet, I still have developed a tick, which from everything I've read, is because the holes in the lifters are filled with gunk.

I have always used Havoline 10w-30 with a good filter, so this "gunk in the lifters" thing leads me to believe that regular petroleum oil is leaving behind a lot of residue that even "changing your oil hot" is not pulling out.

Folks from the 4x4wire website have all dealt with this as well, and have a LOT of good information, I couldn't believe all the information and different options people have tried and cured, or tried and somewhat managed at a low level (ticking).

I don't like the idea of just sitting back and living with it - some say it does no harm, and just makes noise - but the fact is, is there's gunk in there, and it will keep building, even with staying at 3K mile intervals.

And I don't just believe in the "changing your oil more frequently" for a while will help either, as the end result is still there, something, some residue is still being left behind - what else can cause the "gunk" to fill the passage ways IF one has always done oil changes right on time. And used, supposedly one of the better dino oils on the market.

Basically what I'm saying, is yes, the lifter noise can definitely come from lack of maintenance, they are very susceptable to particles in the oil; but obviously, in my situation, and in many other owners, it's NOT from lack of maintenance, so what else could it be??

I have been pounding that question, "what else could it be?" through my mind for the last several days. I know, I know, I'm a#!@ retentive, but I have spent the last 8 years taking extremely good care of this rig, inside and out, and I've taken pride in the fact that I don't have an "american iron" rig to the dismay of others in my family - who've always told me, get rid of that "thing" and get yourself a "chevy" or a "real" vehicle.

I'm not going to allow this "thing" to slowly die at only 140K miles, she still has a lot of life left without replacing internal components. And I like being "different" in the fact that my rig is becoming "rare". I don't want a chevy, ford or dodge, and Xterra's - they don't carry the "look" that the older Rodeo's carry.

And so from my understanding, the agenda is to "clean" out the lifters, rather then just "soften" the sound. All I can do is try, right?

Sea-foam is the only "additive" product I care to use, but don't care to use it continuously - once in a great while, ok; but, if an oil is in fact doing it's job, and not leaving behind particles when drained, one shouldn't have to use a product to "free lifters".

Especially not every 2nd or 3rd oil change, once every 50-70K miles I can see, even with the use of synthetic oils, but not every 6-9K miles for us every 3K oil changers. If we're constantly having to clean up behind the oil, what's the point in running that oil?

I do believe Havoline is a good oil, and I now believe that with these picky lifters, I should've done every 2K mile oil changes instead, at least that's the protocal that some 95-97 owners have done on the other board and have never had the tick even at close to 200K.

Thing is, is I don't have time for every 2K mile oil changes, and I don't trust anyone else to do it either. And, at this point, just switching to 2K mile oil changes, isn't going to "clear" out those lifters, well maybe, in a year or so, but how much damage are they doing by rattling in the meantime??

My going to test theory, possibly an $$$ one for a while, is running 0w-30 Mobile 1 synthetic for possibly a day, drain it & change filter, put in more Mobile 1 0w-30 for a few days. Drain it & change to Rotella 5w-40 synthetic and go from there.

I've heard great things about the Rotella.

I will not run the 0w-30 Mobile 1 for a 3k mile cycle initially, just to play it safe. Some said about the "fear" of particles floating around in a new oil and plugging the oil pick-up - well, theoretically, I shouldn't "have" that many particles or sludge, should I?? If the Havoline regular oil has been doing it's job!

FWIW, if I had over 200K, I'd be more inclined to "accept" it, but why should anyone except it, IF an oil was working correctly and maintenace was followed.

Anyhow, this is my take, and this is what I'm going to attempt, my only fear is the possibility of leaking gaskets - I don't have any leaks now, so hopefully it'll stay that way.

[amigo-2k]

"Rotella 5w-40 synthetic"

Where are you buying this from? I have called about 20 places around my parts looking for it for my VW but no luck.

A couple of things to keep in mind is that during the 3k oil changes the driving habits during that period could be different. If you do a lot of stop and go traffic and short trips it will be really hard on the oil and will cause sluding due to not having the engine running long enough (during the short trips) to boil them off.

My previous truck:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTri.../7859/s10.html


was a 1986 S10 (purchase by my family new and given to me when I was 16 (in 1991). We alway did 2k oil changes, and I sold it in 2000 (when I purchased my 2000 Amigo) with 181k on it. 4 years later I saw it still driving around town.

I too am currently doing 3k changes (with sea foam, due to the know oil useage problems) and plan to go to 2.5k when I hit 100k.

My point here is that with proper maintaince you can make a truck last a very very long time (Chevy, Ford, Nissan and yes Isuzu). The key to it is to keeping it going is keeping an eye and an ear on it, and fix things as soon as the start to go bad OR swap out parts you just don't trust anymore due to the high mileage.

[iskiuskiweski]

I read it all. I agree with what your saying, your doing your part but everyone else doesn't seem to be doing there's.

My experience has been that no matter what brand or weight oil you run or how hot it is when you change it, there will always be sludge build up. It is just an inherant part of dino based oil. Someone once told to not use Quakerstate oil because it had parafin in it which cased a waxy type build up, I don't know if it is true or not but anyway, I have never used it.

Although the new synthetics claim that this is no longer the case with their product. But who knows for sure without using them long term and finding out for your self.

If I had the choice and starting with a brand new vehicle, I would use synthetic only from the start. If their claim is true then we would never run into this problem again.

So for now we can only hope that the engineers of our society take to heart the problems that we have and try to correct them and build a better product for the future.

[Ramblin Fever]

Originally Posted by amigo-2k

My point here is that with proper maintaince you can make a truck last a very very long time (Chevy, Ford, Nissan and yes Isuzu). The key to it is to keeping it going is keeping an eye and an ear on it, and fix things as soon as the start to go bad OR swap out parts you just don't trust anymore due to the high mileage.

This is exactly my point, I have been maintaining this truck, always have, and I have no doubt that it'll last a lot longer. I do have an ear on it "the ticking", and I'm trying to get rid of it so it'll run healthier.

My issue is simply with the ticking, from my understanding it's not healthy - and I don't feel I should have to spend $1,200-2000 to replace lifters just yet.

That's one reason why I haven't switched to Rotella this last week, I can't find it. I'm going to look and see about 10w-30 Mobil Truck & SUV or the German Castrol synthetic.

Thank you for all the help you've given.

[Ramblin Fever]

Also, in general, this is a stop/go driving vehicle, driven for about 30 minutes, at 45-60 mph twice a day. But it's primarily for highway use going on 300-400 mile trips every month, sometimes twice a month.

This truck sees a LOT of highway driving between speeds of 65-70 mph

[todds21]

I feel the same way you do about wanting your truck to last many years. I know that this motor is hard on oil, which is why I opted to switch to a synthetic. I have maintained my 97 by the book for the first 120K and plan on driving it for many more years. I have been doing research over on http://bobistheoilguy.com and found that oil is like religion. Everyone has different beliefs and you just have to decide what you wanna go with. I have used seafoam and will continue to use it for the fuel system. I am going to aggresively try to get any sludge out of the system. The consensus over on bobistheoilguy is that auto-rx is one of the better products for this. I am hoping that with synthetic oil and some auto-rx treatments i can eliminate any sludge residue. I hope whatever plan of action you take works out for you.

[Cat Fuzz]

I just thought of something. Feel free to smack me down. Could you possibly be hearing your fuel injectors and not the lifters? I have often lifted the hood on a running car only to have someone comment on the "noisy lifters" when its just fuel injectors ticking.

Just a random thought I wanted to toss out there.

[marcre]

Sorry for the silly question, but I gotta know. Can someone describe what the ticking sounds like? The reason I ask is because I have had a ticking sound in my rodeo since I bought it in march 2004. I always thought it was a dash rattle. It sounded like a plastic fan with a stick just touching the blades. The reason I ask is I haven't heard it in a while, since my first sea foam treatment.

Thanks, and sorry to post in you thread. But I have to agree with all on this. It is something that people shouldn't have to deal with. I do not blame the oil. I blame the engine design. Even if it is harmless, it is annoying.


Marc

[Ramblin Fever]

Originally Posted by Cat Fuzz

I just thought of something. Feel free to smack me down. Could you possibly be hearing your fuel injectors and not the lifters? I have often lifted the hood on a running car only to have someone comment on the "noisy lifters" when its just fuel injectors ticking.

Just a random thought I wanted to toss out there.

Not gonna smack you down at all, cuz you could be onto something.

I will tell you that the noise is somewhat louder through the passenger wheel well, and you can REALLY hear it if you get on the ground below the engine at start-up, what ever it is, quiets down after 10-20 minutes of driving.

I can tell you that if you pop the hood, you can't hear this noise, it's not within the open hood compartment - if that makes sense.

One other thing, I tried a combination of 10w-40 and Mobil 1 oil filter for 3 days, the sound was 75% worse.

Immediately switched to 5w-30 Havoline, and an AC Delco oil filter, sound is much improved, but still there.

What do fuel injectors sound like?

Thank you all for your input!

[Ramblin Fever]

Originally Posted by todds21

I feel the same way you do about wanting your truck to last many years. I know that this motor is hard on oil, which is why I opted to switch to a synthetic. I have maintained my 97 by the book for the first 120K and plan on driving it for many more years. I have been doing research over on http://bobistheoilguy.com and found that oil is like religion. Everyone has different beliefs and you just have to decide what you wanna go with. I have used seafoam and will continue to use it for the fuel system. I am going to aggresively try to get any sludge out of the system. The consensus over on bobistheoilguy is that auto-rx is one of the better products for this. I am hoping that with synthetic oil and some auto-rx treatments i can eliminate any sludge residue. I hope whatever plan of action you take works out for you.

Sorry bout the questions - But how long ago did you switch to synthetic (mileage)?

What brand/viscosity are you using?

And how long are your drain intervals?

Can I also ask if you had any problems, i.e. leaks in particular?

Also, do you think it's too late, 140K, to switch to synthetic?

[Cat Fuzz]

These are great for pinpointing engine noises.

[bighops2000]

Ill double check in the morning but mine sounds like its ticking on the top of the engine towards the driver side almost like its just inside the throttle body throat. thats why i thought that spraying the deep creep in there would help. like i said Ill double check tommorrow. but make sure your doing it with the hood up b/c the sound can bounce all off the top of the hood. I just want to make sure that we have the same tick so we can try the same solution and get the same result.

[todds21]

Originally Posted by Ramblin Fever

Sorry bout the questions - But how long ago did you switch to synthetic (mileage)?

What brand/viscosity are you using?

And how long are your drain intervals?

Can I also ask if you had any problems, i.e. leaks in particular?

Also, do you think it's too late, 140K, to switch to synthetic?

I switched last year at around 100K. I am running the Amsoil 10w30 and did a 12K drain interval. I think that I still have some sludge in the engine and that messed up some of the numbers on my oil analysis. I have never had any problems with leaks on this engine, just burns some oil especially when alot of highway miles. I did alot of research and was concerned about it being to late to switch to synthetic and if I would benefit at all. From everything I have read, it seems like the rule of thumb is the question if the motor has been well taken care of. I still need to do some engine cleaning and the product that sounds like it works great is auto-rx. This is not a instant pour it in and drain it out product. It gets great reviews over at bobistheoilguy for a slow cleansing effect. Everyone has their own opinion on this topic. I am really hoping that if I can get all the sludge out of the engine with 2 auto-RX cleansings and then running a good synthetic (amsoil or mobil) I can keep the motor going for another 100K. My Rodeo does run great on the synthetic and I am hoping that it works as the marketing blurb claims.....

Resists high temperature burn-off, chemical breakdown and sludging -- keeps engines cleaner. Outstanding low temperature fluidity for fast, dependable winter starts and immediate start-up protection.

Only time will tell, I am spending a couple bucks more on oil now. I have done the 3K oil change religiously for the first 100K and it still seems like I have some sludgeing. The only negative thing that I can think of is that I am wasting some money on the synthetic oil, but for me in the big picture of the costs of a vehicle that is minimal since I am driving this truck till it dies. Hopefully I can be the Rodeo synthetic science project and will have some better results to post in several years.

[Ramblin Fever]

Todds21 - Thank you greatly, can I ask you another?? Did you prep the engine at all before switching?

I too am not a fan of some "flush" to come in and clean it up quick - I don't want that either; but I'm kind of leary of doing the synthetic for one fear only, and that is the pick-up oil screen getting clogged.

Think what I'll do is run another 1 week cycle of Havoline 5w-30 dino, without doing another round of sea-foam, then switched to Mobil 1 4th of July weekend, run it for a week or two, then dump it and refill and go for 2-3K miles.

Lot of good oil getting dumped, I know, but I don't want to overload the system with too much of an extended interval too soon.

[todds21]

Originally Posted by Ramblin Fever

Todds21 - Thank you greatly, can I ask you another?? Did you prep the engine at all before switching?

I too am not a fan of some "flush" to come in and clean it up quick - I don't want that either; but I'm kind of leary of doing the synthetic for one fear only, and that is the pick-up oil screen getting clogged.

Think what I'll do is run another 1 week cycle of Havoline 5w-30 dino, without doing another round of sea-foam, then switched to Mobil 1 4th of July weekend, run it for a week or two, then dump it and refill and go for 2-3K miles.

Lot of good oil getting dumped, I know, but I don't want to overload the system with too much of an extended interval too soon.

I ran the amsoil flush, i was hesitant but did not cause any problems. I will not run another quick flush again because of the clogging you mentioned. Short oil change intervals will help. You may want to change out your oil filters if your concerned about clogging. I am running extended drain intervals but go heavy on changing the oil filters. I do it now about every 3 months. Synthetics do have a cleansing effect with the extra detergents, just really a quesstion of how much sludge you have in your engine and how long it will take to slowly work out.