wrong tranny installed?

[regalfriend]

i have a 1997 1/2 regal gs 3800 series 2 supercharged motor...milage 112000../ tranny was slipping in first gear...brought the car to buick(have aftermarket warranty)...buick sent car to aamco...picked up car from aamco and have had nothing but trouble...at first tranny had real soft shift, brought it back to aamco they said valve body gasket was no good and replaced...after a few days had more problems...no 4th gear or lockup and car was hanging in 2nd gear around town...went back to aamco and was told there was low voltage to tranny from engine which affected shift...picked up car again to have the same problem but worse, service engine soon light came on, had the mechanic check the code and was told it was o2 sensor.....i have not brought it back yet, and am afraid they will cause more damage to my car...all documentation i recieved from aamco suggested my tranny is a 4t65e i know my tranny is a 4t65e-hd, used for L67 motor...can anyone tell me the difference between the 4t65e and the 4t65e-hd transmission? i heard 4t65e-hd has a longer valve body shaft, is there any difference w/ the gears or clutches or torque converter?

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by regalfriend

i have a 1997 1/2 regal gs 3800 series 2 supercharged motor...milage 112000../ tranny was slipping in first gear...brought the car to buick(have aftermarket warranty)...buick sent car to aamco...picked up car from aamco and have had nothing but trouble...at first tranny had real soft shift, brought it back to aamco they said valve body gasket was no good and replaced...after a few days had more problems...no 4th gear or lockup and car was hanging in 2nd gear around town...went back to aamco and was told there was low voltage to tranny from engine which affected shift...picked up car again to have the same problem but worse, service engine soon light came on, had the mechanic check the code and was told it was o2 sensor.....i have not brought it back yet, and am afraid they will cause more damage to my car...all documentation i recieved from aamco suggested my tranny is a 4t65e i know my tranny is a 4t65e-hd, used for L67 motor...can anyone tell me the difference between the 4t65e and the 4t65e-hd transmission? i heard 4t65e-hd has a longer valve body shaft, is there any difference w/ the gears or clutches or torque converter?

The 1997 and up Regal GS has the RPO MN7 4T65E-HD tranny. The 1997 and up Regal LS and Grand Prixs with the NA 3800 Series II engine have RPO M13 (1997-98) and M15 (1998) and around 1999 it was changed to RPO MN3. There are variances.

On the 4T65E-HD versus 4T65E the torque convertors are different via the flex plate. The transaxle half shafts are different. The splines are bigger. The gear ratios are different and the output gears and bearings are beefier. The clutches are the same. In the 1997 M13/M15 models there may be differences in the solenoids such as the PCS, TCC PWM and up shift. The rule of thumb is always use the torque convertor from the L67 RPO MN7 on the Regal GS or Pontiac GTP.

The ECU/PCM for L67 RPO MN7 is programmed differently for different shift points and higher line pressure, etc.




Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 Spark Plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

[kustomkid54]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

The 1997 and up Regal GS has the RPO MN7 4T65E-HD tranny. The 1997 and up Regal LS and Grand Prixs with the NA 3800 Series II engine have RPO M13 (1997-98) and M15 (1998) and around 1999 it was changed to RPO MN3. There are variances.

On the 4T65E-HD versus 4T65E the torque convertors are different via the flex plate. The transaxle half shafts are different. The splines are bigger. The gear ratios are different and the output gears and bearings are beefier. The clutches are the same. In the 1997 M13/M15 models there may be differences in the solenoids such as the PCS, TCC PWM and up shift. The rule of thumb is always use the torque convertor from the L67 RPO MN7 on the Regal GS or Pontiac GTP.

The ECU/PCM for L67 RPO MN7 is programmed differently for different shift points and higher line pressure, etc.




Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 Spark Plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

WOW,

That was the right answer. Have to get you and Big-L together, somehow.

[regalfriend]

thanks bnaylor, info really helped...can you tell me? if i have a RPO MN7 4T65E-HD TRANNY is it possible that they rebuild it with RPO M13 4T65E PARTS...even though the car wont run right because of ecu, will the tranny still fit...i was told it would but the tourqe from my motor will rip it to shreds...i was also told valve body shaft is shorter in the M13 and will wear alot faster if it was installed w/ Ll67 motor causing lower pressure?

[regalfriend]

thanks bnaylor, info really helped...can you tell me? if i have a RPO MN7 4T65E-HD TRANNY is it possible that they rebuild it with RPO M13 4T65E PARTS...even though the car wont run right because of ecu, will the tranny still fit...i was told it would but the tourqe from my motor will rip it to shreds...i was also told valve body shaft is shorter in the M13 and will wear alot faster if it was installed w/ L67 motor causing lower pressure?

[regalfriend]

thanks to Kustomkid54 too, if you have any more info on the 4t65e-hd, please let me know...also can you tell me about the cv joints in this car...i hear the part is expensive

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by regalfriend

thanks bnaylor, info really helped...can you tell me? if i have a RPO MN7 4T65E-HD TRANNY is it possible that they rebuild it with RPO M13 4T65E PARTS...even though the car wont run right because of ecu, will the tranny still fit...i was told it would but the tourqe from my motor will rip it to shreds...i was also told valve body shaft is shorter in the M13 and will wear alot faster if it was installed w/ L67 motor causing lower pressure?

The M13/M15 4T65E tranny will fit physically into your Regal GS. As for the valve body they are the same, however, I'm not sure about the valve body shaft you were referring to. The bands are the same. Therefore, many of the parts between a MN7 and M13 are interchangeable.

If we are talking about specifically the 1997 MN7 and M13 only, these internal valve components have different parts numbers. TCC PWM solenoid and the Upshift solenoid.

I've heard of people replacing a MN7 with a M13/15. However, various DTC error codes from the ECU/PCM usually pop up along with the possibility of a SES light. Plus there's a high probability the car will run, however, they also encounter harsh/hard shifting, erratic upshifts/downshifts and possible launch shudder.

The primary difference and where the strength lies is in the transfer case consisting of the differential and carrier, therefore IMO the reliability issues and problems will be in this area more so than the internal components.

Personally, I would stay with a replacement MN7 4T65E-HD only. Hope the info helps and good luck!



Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 Spark Plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

[troy1]

I agree with bnaylor3400 the guts are all basically the same you might have some more clutchs **MAYBE** but its mostly smoke and mirrors.

[steve009]

Originally Posted by regalfriend

i have a 1997 1/2 regal gs 3800 series 2 supercharged motor...milage 112000../ tranny was slipping in first gear...brought the car to buick(have aftermarket warranty)...buick sent car to aamco...picked up car from aamco and have had nothing but trouble...at first tranny had real soft shift, brought it back to aamco they said valve body gasket was no good and replaced...after a few days had more problems...no 4th gear or lockup and car was hanging in 2nd gear around town...went back to aamco and was told there was low voltage to tranny from engine which affected shift...picked up car again to have the same problem but worse, service engine soon light came on, had the mechanic check the code and was told it was o2 sensor.....i have not brought it back yet, and am afraid they will cause more damage to my car...all documentation i recieved from aamco suggested my tranny is a 4t65e i know my tranny is a 4t65e-hd, used for L67 motor...can anyone tell me the difference between the 4t65e and the 4t65e-hd transmission? i heard 4t65e-hd has a longer valve body shaft, is there any difference w/ the gears or clutches or torque converter?

Hi we build them at powertran and the hd has special parts in it i think including a hd finial drive unit.we build standard and hd for higher horse power cars.

[regalfriend]

i had 2 codes come up when obd was used...p01610 aqnd p0 717...can anyone tell me more about these codes and tell me what pzm means?

[regalfriend]

also when hooked up to obd the rpm's would not register, tranny temp was running a little hotter than normal and obd could not tell me the gear ratio's......and if o2 sensor code comes up and SES light comes on is it possible that the ecu can reset this code with out the OBD

[regalfriend]

if i had a complete teardown would all parts be able to be identified by either part number or visual inspection to determine if the part is for a mn7 or m13 or m15?

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by regalfriend

i had 2 codes come up when obd was used...p01610 aqnd p0 717...can anyone tell me more about these codes and tell me what pzm means?

P0717 is a generic DTC error code for "input/turbine speed sensor A circuit no signal". Transmission related.

P1610 is a GM manufacturer specific DTC error code for "Loss of PZM Serial Data" which is ECU/PCM specific. PZM = Platform Zone Module.



Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 Spark Plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by regalfriend

also when hooked up to obd the rpm's would not register, tranny temp was running a little hotter than normal and obd could not tell me the gear ratio's......and if o2 sensor code comes up and SES light comes on is it possible that the ecu can reset this code with out the OBD

If either 02 sensor triggers the SES/CEL light, its normally permanent until the ECU/PCM is reset. Therefore the obb-ii scanner will be needed to reset. Also, the scanner depending on brand should generate an "IM" emissions cycle/testing failure.



Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 Spark Plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials