Silvia Recipie

[Jay!]

I've decided to transplant this conversation from this thread, because it's mostly about Nissan's SR engines in Silvia-type applications.

Posted by morpheusxiii on 07-06-2001 03:16 AM:
Oh and just food for thought, Silver S2K, the S2000 that ran in "Race Wars" MUST have been powered by an SR20. Remember that scene when the biker gang's lead demanded "a couple of Nissan SR20s" from the man who was 'oiled' in the garage? His S2K was lacking a motor. Nissan powered Honda... interesting, no?

Posted by Silver S2000 on 07-06-2001 04:05 PM:
Interesting, yes. But the only cars I saw without engines were Civics and Integras. Even so, would that type of cross-make swap require a ridiculous amount of re-engineering? I've always heard that Honda engines run the other direction (clockwise v. counterclockwise) from almost all other engines. So they'd have to make all the Nissan drive train fit, right? But they only asked for the engines. As for the S2000 … how could they fit an SR20 to a FR drive setup? Does Nissan use it for FR ever?

Posted by morpheusxiii on 07-07-2001 04:35 AM:
--Silver S2000

Hmm... not to be demeaning, but Nissan uses the SR20 for the majority of its well-known autos like the Silvia, or 180SX. The SR20DET was initially designed for front-mounted, rear wheel-drive chassis, succeeding the CA18DET. Therefore, fitting an SR20 into an S2000 would be a piece of cake. But why would anybody? The S2000's Honda F20C is a wonder in itself--no point in jacking around with a good thing...

Posted by Silver S2000 on 07-07-2001 10:28 PM:
No sweat, man. The cars that I associate with the SR are the Sentra SE-R, G20, and (U.S.) 200SX. (They're all FF, right?) I guess I had always assumed that all the Silvias were KAs. I guess I better go read more about Nissans...

Posted by morpheusxiii on 07-08-2001 05:48 PM:
SEE?! This is precisely what Nissan enthusiasts are always jabbering about... Such ignorance from the heads at Nissan for not allowing the 240SX to have the SR. Too many still don't know about the S13/14s great potential in becoming a powerful all around sports car.

Food for thought: IF the U.S.'s 240SX did get the SR20DET, would the name remain to be the same? It would then have to be called 200SX (as in the U.K.) but that would clash with the other 200SX. Hypothetically, it would probably be too weird to bring the S15 here, powered by an SR20, and call it the 200SX. The '95+ 200SX would still be in the public's memory (or not, considering how low sales were).

What would you call the S15 (besides Silvia), if it made it here?

Posted by Silver S2000 on 07-08-2001 07:00 PM:
So the KA engine is N.America only? That's pretty dumb! I went back and consulted my J-spec source (GT2) and yeah, they do say that every Silvia had some type of SR.

My question is... How hard is it to convert a U.S.-spec 240SX with the KA to a J-spec Silvia with an SR, especially an SR20DET? Can you even get an SR20DET around here? Does the stuff bolt right in, or did they totally screw up the guts of the car when they sold it here?

While Nissan may know how to build cars well, they sure don't know how to sell them well.

Posted by morpheusxiii on 07-09-2001 03:07 AM:
And the answer is: the KA24DE/SR20DET swap is one of the easiest to perform, simply because the engine/tranny combo was originally designed FOR the S13/14s. The number of shops that will do this transplant (and availability of parts) is growing, due to the increasing demand for original J-spec parts in North America (a.k.a. JDM--I hate this acronym).

Enthusiasts seem to be FINALLY moving away from the NADM (hah, I just made that term up right now!) "import scene", and are actually beginning to obtain more and more genuine parts from the land of the rising sun.

Getting back to the case of the missing engine, the SR bolts in with fair ease. The only difficult tasks include rewiring the ECU, and clearing/relocating a few engine components to make room for the steering column. However both of these custom chores aren't really all that hard. Prices for the job can range from $2000-$5000 (depending on the SR's year, mileage, with/w/o installation, included pieces), most generally including the used motor with low-fair mileage, factory turbo, and SR wiring harness (which needs to be adapted to the KA's, as mentioned above).

I, for one, give this modification the thumbs-up simply because of the high power yield and excellent future potential (SR20DET blocks are nearly bulletproof from the factory), for the cost of an average turbocharger kit.

When I thought about getting my next car, the 240SX seemed like an appropriate candidate, but I was dissuaded when I compared its performance figures with my other two choices.

So, now I want to know more about putting an SR20DE or SR20DET into a U.S.-spec 240SX to build a Silvia. I'd like to know the legal implications, which were briefly mentioned here: Do they exist?. And I'd like to know how economically feasible it is. Above, morpheusxiii ballparks the price of an engine swap at $2K-5K, but that's a wide range. I was looking for a price range for the whole car of about $10K. This means I'd have to get an S13 instead of an S14, but if I got a newer engine, I might feel better about it. Also, I wouldn't mind some of the newer Nissan body parts and taillights that morpheusxiii posted here.

FYI, Auto Trader quotes the following retail prices for recent U.S. 240SXs:

• S13: 1992 Nissan 240 SX SE 2-Door Coupe - $4,310 - $7,430
• S14 Type I: 1995 Nissan 240SX SE 2-Door Coupe - $8,470 - $11,170
• S14 Type II: 1998 Nissan 240SX SE 2-Door Coupe - $17,125 - $18,175

Anybody have personal experience with engine swaps of any kind? What other questions do I need to ask?

[Morpheus XIII]

PLEASE PLEASE!!! Someone else respond but ME!!! I TOO wish to hear others' thoughts and experiences concerning U.S. 240SXs!

Alright, I know there are dedicated 240SX sites dicussing such matters, but I am in dire wanting of fresh ideas and insight. My $2K-5K SR20DET ballpark is ultimately determined by the age/quality and inclusive parts of the engine, as well as whether or not it is installed yourself. I've witnessed premiere year SRs with ~30K miles without labor for $3000. I've witnessed '89 240SXs for $1800 (but who cares about the KAs high mileage or outdated body panels, right?). Search hard, you'll find your treasures.

As for using a J-spec Silvia SR20DE (without the "T") in a 240SX, that would be a waste of time and effort since they are even harder to find than the turbocharged counterparts in the States (plus they lack the factory Nismo pistons that the DETs include). The U.S. SR20DE from the SE-R Sentras, 200SXs, NXs, etc. won't simply run in a 240SX since the S13-15s require specific rear wheel-drive transmissions which the above mentioned vehicles do not provide. You cannot use the KA24E/KA24DE tranny or even the J-spec SR tranny on the U.S. SR20DE motor, without extensive and expensive modifications.

Therefore, the quickest and least expensive way to get that finely built 2.0 turbo 240SX running is to obtain that SR20DET from Japan. As for afterservice, there are numerous automotive technicians well capable of working with your new SR since the naturally aspirated version has been around for more than a decade. Emission understandings are still questionable but I've been told that "same-year" engine/chassis matches work the smoothest, since the corresponding OBD systems are used.

As always, good hunting and I will notify when I uncover additional data.

[tristarx]

The cost to do the transplant including labor and motor will run about $5k average. Since you guys are all in SoCal, SR20 Performance in West Covina can do the transplant for about $1500 labor but you must provide all engine/motor parts to them.

Whether you want custom piping, valve springs, front mounted intercooler, price will vary.

There are many transplants already done so it's nothing new.

We will be carrying alot of SR20 parts in the near future.

[Twist]

How legal is the SR20DET? Morpheus mentioned emmisions difficulties? Is this a problem outside of California?

[Jay!]

Originally posted by Twist
How legal is the SR20DET? Morpheus mentioned emmisions difficulties? Is this a problem outside of California?

:cry:

[tristarx]

Putting in a SR20DET will not pass emissions. Try to renew your registration tag before you do the transplant. That way you have a leeway for 2 years w/o worrying about smog.

[Twist]

What about outside of CA?

[tristarx]

Same things apply to other States. Except to states where there's no smog law's, then you can do whatever you want to your car.

[Morpheus XIII]

I don't know about you Jay, but I want to move the heck outta here.

[Strike888]

You mentioned the price for a transplant, but how bout the engine itself?
Super Street said the SR20DET is around $7000, is dat the price for one in average condition, or for one in great condition?

[Jay!]

Originally posted by Strike888
You mentioned the price for a transplant, but how bout the engine itself?
Super Street said the SR20DET is around $7000, is dat the price for one in average condition, or for one in great condition?

I don't know. Our pals in the G20/Primera Forum are getting FWD SR20DETs for way less than that.

Originally posted by Morpheus XIII
I don't know about you Jay, but I want to move the heck outta here.

New Zealand looks nice. :coolguy: :sun:

[Twist]

Originally posted by tristarx
Same things apply to other States. Except to states where there's no smog law's, then you can do whatever you want to your car.

MUHAHAHAHA!!!!! I will have a Silvia!!!


On a seperate note:
I've found RWD SR20DET's for $4-5000. That includes installation.

[Morpheus XIII]

Aw, lucky bastard.

[Twist]

Not quite. I still gotta buy the car, the engine, find some one to install it and a place to order all the other performance goodies like suspension, anti-sway bars, and the like. I'm still in concept mode, but it WILL happen!

[91RedSilvia]

Hey everybody,

I'm new to this board but have been doing some real research into the SR20DET. I'm going to be buying the engine in probably 8 months or so and am lucky enough to know someone who will install it for free

Anyway, prices for the various engines should be around:
All RWD Engines w/Tranny no ECU because you should get one from Jim Wolf Technologies. Serious HP gains from their ECUs and they are not that much more...

Here you go:
S13 $2100
S14 $2700
S15 $3400

The shop that quoted me these prices said installation would be around $1200. It's worth noting that most people recommend getting an S13 as the starter unit, since you're putting a new engine anyway, you can save some upfront to put into the engine. Also, get a DOHC version S13 (91-94) because the engine is almost a direct bolt in for these. The 89-90 models will require re-routing of the power steering cables among other things.

Anyway, hello again to everyone, and let's see some more SR20DET 240s on the road!!

BTW, the lastest issue of Super Street has an awesome 180SX with the S15 silvia front end on it. Made me drool....

Later!
Justin